Thanks for your input Doc. Regarding their rumps... Some of the angus lines seem to have a very high tail head, which I've been told can cause calving problems. I thought their rumps were just round, and with a flat, low tail head. But, then I looked at the bull on the third page of this brochure - his looks flatter / less sloped:
http://www.senepolcattle.com/files/Engl ... ersion.pdf
Is this more what I should be looking for in the hid quarters?
The Senepol breed seems to have a tendency towards a pinched heartgerth - I was conscious of this when looking at bulls and the two I asked about were better than many others. By this, I mean that the width of their body often narrows somewhat a little behind the front legs. Is this what you are refering to also?
Lastly, do you have a preference between these two, or do you feel they are really not worth looking at in the first place?
ArmyDoc-
Let me answer your last question right at the outset. Please do not mistake my rather severe assessment of these two bulls as a rejection of their worth! By NO means. I am very impressed with the Senepol breed from what I have read here on this thread, as I have never studied them in the past, so I was going into the review completely open minded. The related facts concerning the breed here is very interesting! Their characteristics relating to hotter, Southern Climates, and insect resistance is a breath of fresh air ( a little bit of humor there :lol2:
), and I think it could open the door to a lot of Breeders in the Southern part of the US for crossbreeding opportunities - with several breeds!
Having established my enthusiasm for the breeding opportunities with the Senepols, Let's take a deep breath, anchor in on the necessary factors which are required for the selection decisions on ANY Bull selection protocol. ...and these same
tools are just as imperative in the management of your COW herd!
The Primary elements and ingredients in your decision-making schedule is for you to make a definite resolution and determination concerning
just EXACTLY the type of Beef Cattle operation in which you wish to engage - Terminal, Maternal (cow calf program), OR a flexible Dual purpose-type agenda. That decision will stamp your FUTURE seedstock selections (purchases) AND Heifer retentions from your own program indelibly, and preclude any uncertainty, ambiguity and doubtful questions from clouding your ultimate goals for your herd. You will KNOW what characteristics and traits are lacking in your program, and can proceed with alacrity and determination!
Establishing a
mental image of the Phenotype, Genotype and Functional Trait characteristics you desire for your "Herd Image" takes the perpetual pressure from you in making selection and retention decisions for years in the future!
The subject of "High Tail Heads" is one which is controversial and seems to be an arguing point. Some breeders are adamently against them (high tail settings), for a variety of reasons (difficult calving being the most predominate), and other breeders are just as vehemently in favor of them, claiming that it makes for
easier calving. To be honest with you, I don't know. Personally, I just don't like the appearance of a high tail setting, as it gives the impression (true or false) that the individual has a weak top-line. I guess it comes down to a personal choice for the breeder.
Insofar as to what you should be striving for in your selection processes concerning hindquarters, it depends upon whether your herd 'type' is Terminal or Maternal. Heavier hindquarters and larger bone, higher MW along with higher REA EPD's and overall thickness is a template that indicates Terminal (feedlot) breeding. Maternal characteristics carry with them a lesser hindquarter (proportionally) than Terminal, along with higher Milk EPDs, lower BW and calving ease, and higher Cow Energy Values. You can readily see why it is so critical that you establish a
"TYPE" basis at the outset of your long-term breeding schedule!
As far as to which of these two bulls I would prefer, I would take into consideration what their progeny has presented and how they have performed in the past, how their dams have produced and their longevity - and - probably most important of all - what cows you have with which to establish a breeding program. I tend to prefer PRR 2110L on the basis of his EPD's, his age, and his physical conditioning at the time of these pictures. CN5K is in higher finish condition, however I am of the opinion that 2110L has been in a breeding schedule, and if he were in the same Body Score Condition as CN 5K his phenotype would have a more desirable appearance. Having said all of the above, I still insist that PICTURES are NOT sufficient testimony or evidence for making optimal mating decisions.
I think that a careful crossbreeding agenda using acceptable Senepol Genetics with any of several other breeds would result in surprising successes. With the present costs of Agricultural commodities, land, feed, pasture, forage and seedstock, we must plan carefully to reduce overhead and increase PROFITS incrementally, and crossbreeding is one of the most efficient ways to immediately serve those needs. I feel that Senepol cattle have a place in that effort, particularly in the Southern parts of the country.
DOC HARRIS