What did I do? (Calving intervention required for new cows)

[ny_grass]

howdy

Last night the truck rolled up and we unloaded my new angus cows; 5 bred and due any time, one with I little gal at her side (it having calved on 4/15). Four hours after arriving and cow #2 calved; the labor seemed quick and calf seems healthy (though when I woke up this morning it had gotten lost outside the paddock - I helped it back in and it took to nursing immediately).

My concern is what the guy I bought them from told me; he says that "probably 20%" of his cows require intervention when calving!

I decided long ago that I didn't want to be in the cattle midwife business and started looking at breeds like belted galloway which are said to have few issues. When I couldn't find any belties for a price I was willing to pay I started looking at angus (pretty much forgetting that they're known for calving problems). So I'm now feeling some buyers remorse that I'll forever have to be on the watch when they are about to calve.

My question:
Is there anything I can do to minimize the likelihood that I'll have problems? I guess for this batch of calves I'm out of luck, but I figure for the next batch I can breed them A.I. and ensure that I use a bull who's known for not having problems. And, of course, at that point it will be all the cows 2nd (or 3rd) calf (which should reduce problems, right?). I'm stressed since I don't yet have a confinement structure to isolate the about-to-freshen cows (they are just on pasture in electric paddocks). I guess better get busy and build one! ;-)

Thanks much for any insight,
JR

 

[bigbull338]

to prevent alot of calving probs.you can watch your cows close.meaning check the cows 3 or 4 times a day.an if 1 is close put her in the corral so you can watch her.an help if needed.i dont know much bout angus but a 20% prob calving isnt good.you need to breed the cows to calving ease bulls.

 

[rockridgecattle]

We have angus and angus cross.
OUr claving problem are minimal compared to the charlois we once had.
We assist very few cows and heiffers. And assist with problems such as foot back, winter feed overload due to extreme cold creating big calves, backwards.

Calving problems happen in any breed. But to minimize the problem you want to choose cows with a decent birth weight. Under 100 # We prefer the 80-90# mark. As well as a decent frame.
Then choose your bulls accordingly. You got a 100# + BW bull, large frame built like a fridge, big squarre head, overly thick neck , shoulders of a summa wrestler, feet the size of coffee cans, you are going to run into difficuly in any breed.

 

[Alan]

You probably will not have much problem, 20% of 5 is 1. You already have 2 on the ground so you're 40% through it. You have already experienced the thing I hate the most about calving season. I use a rotational grazing system, meaning I have several 2 to 4 acre pastures and move the cattle every couple of days to new pasture, never fails that the cows know to go through the gate and fresh grass but there is always a calf or two that goes through a fence (hot) and get stuck on the wrong side. I usally go unplug the fence and give the calf a couple of hours to figure it out..... then get mom to go get her calf.

You have no control on what will happen, sounds like you have a good start to your season, and have calves on the ground without having to feed them through the winter. When you breed back you may want to use a easy calving bull to ease your mind.

Good luck,
Alan

 

[Aero]

well, one thing you can do is to cull those animals which cause you more trouble than you are willing to put up with. I know 5 animals makes it hard to cull heavily, but just keep track of the repeat offenders and the opportunity will come up. I say if the calf is on the wrong side of the fence and cant get back, the cow just let her calf get eaten by coyotes.

 

[ny_grass]

When I went back out after writing up this original post, the calf had gotten out again and was about 30 yards away from the paddock in the woods! I had to wrestle him back (I think he's figuring out that the fence just doesn't feel right!;-) Alan had said that he turns off the fence and waits a couple of hours. So does that mean, Alan, that you take down the line between the cow and the calf? I guess it must, since I don't think that the cow would cross the line even after it was turned off. Is there some problem with just putting the calf back by hand? (Nothing like the cow will reject it because I've touched it is there?)

thanks
JR

 

[Alan]

I say if the calf is on the wrong side of the fence and cant get back, the cow just let her calf get eaten by coyotes.

??? new calves get on the wrong side of the fence all the time, the cow has nothing to do with it how can it be her fault?
Alan

 

[Frankie]

I don't know where you got the idea that Angus are know for calving problems, but it's not true. If you go to a commercial sale or read sale flyers, you'll see a lot of cattle bred to an "easy calving Angus bull." Now whether that's true or not, is questionable, but Angus, as a breed, are easy calvers and good mommas.

As for avoiding problems in the future, learn about Expected Progeny Difference (EPDs). They're the best way to evaluate different bulls (of the same breed) for various traits, including calving ease. Here's a link to Angus EPDs.

http://www.angus.org/sireeval/howto.html

Most all breeds have EPDs and they all work pretty much the same. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions on the board.

No, the cow won't reject the calf because you've touched it. I don't understand why you have a fence between the cow and calf?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

You likely won't have any trouble, having two out of five already with no trouble. if all cows are bred to same bull seeing the second calf right at birth should give you a clue to what to expect from the next three. You here a lot about calving ease bulls, that is not the total anwser to less calving trouble, raising cattle that can have bigger calves with out trouble is where you gain on calving problems.
The calf just looking for a place to hide and sleep. raise the fence up enough the calf can go under it when it gets hungry it will come back to moma. Calves just do things like that no big deal.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

IMO calving issues can be solved with cow selection more effectively than bull selection. Many people focus so much on a calving ease bull that they breed the abillity to have calves out of their herd. If a cow can't deliver a calf that is 7% of her own body weight, then we don't want her.

We never focus on calving ease bulls. We hardly even look at those particular epd's. Instead we focus on the heifer and her pelvic area. We just don't want to start a vicious cycle where we have to constantly be watching for calving ease bulls b/c of the trap we set ourselves up for a few years back. It has worked so far. We have pulled 1 calf in 24 years and it was due to a leg being out of sync. Its just not a problem we have to worry about.

If a heifer/cow does have a calving problem, she will more than likely be the one that we cull rather than the bull.

I don't know where you got the idea that Angus are know for calving problems, but it's not true. If you go to a commercial sale or read sale flyers, you'll see a lot of cattle bred to an "easy calving Angus bull."

Its not so much that the Angus bull is a hard calver, its that the cows have been bred to the point that they can't have a calf over 60lbs. That is a problem with the breed imo.

 

[Alan]

When I went back out after writing up this original post, the calf had gotten out again and was about 30 yards away from the paddock in the woods! I had to wrestle him back (I think he's figuring out that the fence just doesn't feel right!;-) Alan had said that he turns off the fence and waits a couple of hours. So does that mean, Alan, that you take down the line between the cow and the calf? I guess it must, since I don't think that the cow would cross the line even after it was turned off. Is there some problem with just putting the calf back by hand? (Nothing like the cow will reject it because I've touched it is there?)

thanks
JR

I should have said that the age of the calf has a lot to do with what I do, if it's within a couple of days old I just guide it back through the fence. I leave the fence on and try to get them most of the way under without getting shocked. If they are older and on the run that is when I give them time to try to figure it out. I don't take down the fence, I just open the gates and mom knows where to go. I have my cows "trained" to come to my call they know if I yell "come on ladies" there is something good going to happen.... that helps also. I, like many others here, give the new born calf shots and an ear tag within a few hours after they are born, mom will alway take them. But if you are new to cattle have someone to help you with this to watch how mom acts, you don't want to get run over. The biggest key is to stay calm around mom and calf, if you're excited they get excited.

Alan

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I aam with you SDR for me the most important calving epd is CEM if breeding for big pelvic measurement you reduce calving trouble.

 

[dun]

I aam with you SDR for me the most important calving epd is CEM if breeding for big pelvic measurement you reduce calving trouble.

We look at both only if we are using it on cows we would retain heifers from. For those that we won;t keep any heifers form we only pay attention to his calving ease. There are plenty of bulls, in I would guess, every breed that can give you both. But there are bulls too that have lower calving ease and their daughters are even lower calving ease. Proper selection for the purpose is what it's all about.

 

[Aero]

I say if the calf is on the wrong side of the fence and cant get back, the cow just let her calf get eaten by coyotes.

??? new calves get on the wrong side of the fence all the time, the cow has nothing to do with it how can it be her fault?
Alan

some cows put their calves where they can get to them. if the calf would have starved to death without me going to get him, his mom failed him.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Aero, I don't think your logic is completely sound. Some mothers are better than others, but like children, calves are liable to not always do as they are "told".

 

[grubbie]

After those cows have their first calf you shouldn't have any calving problems. Angus are known for calving trouble?? Since when?? As far as a fairly newborn calf getting out, it happens all the time, he will get back in when he is hungry. A small calf can get through barbed wire fences easily. If you are worried about it getting out, put up some electric fence about nose high. If he is allowed to keep walking thru that fence, he will never have respect for it and you'll never keep him in. Light him up a time or two and he'll get the picture. Woven wire will work too but I just hate working with that stuff. Also, in my opinion, if I had to assist 20% of my cows, even heifers, calving,.....I would have 20% less cows.

 

[angus9259]

Angus are not generally a calving difficulty breed.

You can certainly develop a herd of calving difficulty cattle of ANY breed including Angus. You can do that by not culling and not paying attention to everything everyone's already said in this thread.

If the guy you bought them from said he has to assist 20% of the time, IMO, you bought some cattle from a calving difficulty herd. Angus or not, they could give you problems.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is take your 5 cows and begin the process of moving toward a calving ease herd by doing what folks here have suggested: selecting the right bulls, retaining the right heifers, and culling the right cows.

 

[Aero]

Aero, I don't think your logic is completely sound. Some mothers are better than others, but like children, calves are liable to not always do as they are "told".

i understand what you mean. it all comes down to how much you are willing to work for your cows.

 

[msscamp]

My concern is what the guy I bought them from told me; he says that "probably 20%" of his cows require intervention when calving!

Ok, so you're talking about 1 cow - what's the problem? I don't care what breed you are raising, malpresentations happen and they generally require intervention if you're interested in saving the cow and calf. That is simply a fact of life in the cattle business.

I decided long ago that I didn't want to be in the cattle midwife business...

Then you're in the wrong business. As previously mentioned, ALL breeds are subject to malpresentations. Intervention is generally necessary unless you don't mind losing the mother along with the calf.

When I couldn't find any belties for a price I was willing to pay I started looking at angus (pretty much forgetting that they're known for calving problems).

Hmmmm, interesting statement. Where did you get your facts? I'm not a big Angus fan, but we raised them for a number of years and they didn't have any more calving problems than any other breed that we've raised. Perhaps you might want to recheck your facts?

So I'm now feeling some buyers remorse that I'll forever have to be on the watch when they are about to calve.

No, not forever on the watch - only during calving season. ;-) :lol: That would be true of any breed unless, as previously mentioned, you don't mind losing a cow or two along with the calves.

My question:
Is there anything I can do to minimize the likelihood that I'll have problems?

Yep, you can sell them - that way there will be no problems whatsoever!

I guess for this batch of calves I'm out of luck, but I figure for the next batch I can breed them A.I. and ensure that I use a bull who's known for not having problems.

That will help, but it won't eliminate the possibility of a foot, or head back, or a backwards calf. Those things just go with the territory, and they can happen to any cow - first time calver, or seasoned cow.

And, of course, at that point it will be all the cows 2nd (or 3rd) calf (which should reduce problems, right?).

Yes, 2nd and 3rd calf heifers have fewer problems than 1st calf heifers, but they can still have problems. Don't make the mistake of thinking they are immune to problems just because they have delivered their first calf, because that is not true.

I'm stressed since I don't yet have a confinement structure to isolate the about-to-freshen cows (they are just on pasture in electric paddocks). I guess better get busy and build one! ;-)

Ummm, yes, that will certainly save you a lot of frustration. :lol: If you know how to rope, a tree or deeply set post will work in a pinch - but they tend to be a bit frustrating, trust me on this! Good luck with your cows!

Thanks much for any insight,
JR

 

[SRBeef]

I have a couple places where the electric wire is high enough that the calves can get under but not the cows. Our grass is just not growing enough yet and I am feeding hay here in April 28th!

Letting the calves on the new grass is not a problem. A good Momma will call them back and when they get hungry they will find their way back. I don't like to ever shut off an electric fence - they get confused. It is a mental barrier and if it is off sometimes it loses its deterent value.