What’s everyone using for minerals.

[faster horses]

Here's what I found on their website.

I find it interesting that what you are using is 1:1 Cal to Phos. Most, if not all, nutritionists recommend 2:1, 3:1, even 6:1 and advise to never use a mineral with more Phos than Cal.
Anyway, glad it is working for you.

On another note this happened to a rancher we know. He had mineral mixed in town by a local feed dealer. I looked at the tag and said, "there is no zinc in this mineral." He said, "yeah. They were out of zinc when they made it." Jon Patterson, MSU, who did extensive studies on mineral in MT said "if you get the cal-phos ratio out of balance, you are better off not to feed mineral." That fall, the rancher I am talking about had a lot of problems in his cowherd.

 

[bigbluegrass]

I have been using VitaFerm minerals. Concept Aid 5S from August to April and Heat for May to July. Switched to that about 2 years ago. Last year I was disappointed with several cases of pink eye and generally the cows seemed less healthy. I have some ringworm now. I don't know how much of that to blame on the mineral.

Before VitaFerm I used a mineral by Southern States (Beef breeder) for 10+ years. It is now made by Cargil, I believe. The ingredients changed, so I switched brands. I had very few problems when I was using the Southern States mineral.

 

[Nkline]

Here's what I found on their website.

Just did the math from the label on the website. With estimation for total pounds of micro/additive components.

 

[bigbluegrass]

I find it interesting that what you are using is 1:1 Cal to Phos. Most, if not all, nutritionists recommend 2:1, 3:1, even 6:1 and advise to never use a mineral with more Phos than Cal.

I was talking to the mineral salesman from Vita Ferm and told him I would like to try the CA 10. He warned me it had a lot of Phos in it. He said if you feed any grain, you should not use it. My question to him (and you) is what if you don't feed any grain and soil tests show your land is low in Phos?

 

[EasTex]

I tried WInd & Rain with IGR, but they did not like it. Tried Vitaferm Heat and they ate that pretty good, but it was $56/bag. Can't do that…Been using Lonestar 12/6. They seem to like it and the price isn't bad.

 

[Otha]

I find it interesting that what you are using is 1:1 Cal to Phos. Most, if not all, nutritionists recommend 2:1, 3:1, even 6:1 and advise to never use a mineral with more Phos than Cal.
Anyway, glad it is working for you.

On another note this happened to a rancher we know. He had mineral mixed in town by a local feed dealer. I looked at the tag and said, "there is no zinc in this mineral." He said, "yeah. They were out of zinc when they made it." Jon Patterson, MSU, who did extensive studies on mineral in MT said "if you get the cal-phos ratio out of balance, you are better off not to feed mineral." That fall, the rancher I am talking about had a lot of problems in his cowherd.

I'm not using it for the high phos content. I just wanted to try a mineral without salt and this was the only one I could find locally. I wasn't aware that they could be getting enough phos from the mineral to hurt them. I will be feeding the vitafirm hi-mag mineral from mid feb to around june. It has 5% phos in it. Maybe that'll help balance things out.

I was talking to the mineral salesman from Vita Ferm and told him I would like to try the CA 10. He warned me it had a lot of Phos in it. He said if you feed any grain, you should not use it. My question to him (and you) is what if you don't feed any grain and soil tests show your land is low in Phos?

I hardly feed any grain. Just a few range cubes to keep them coming and sometimes some cotton seed cake if I have a bunch of low quality stockpiled grass to graze. I've heard about people running blood work on the cattle like people have, along with soil and forage testing to determine a custom mix mineral. Sounds like the best approach but I don't have enough cattle to justify that process.

 

[bigbluegrass]

I'm not using it for the high phos content. I just wanted to try a mineral without salt and this was the only one I could find locally. I wasn't aware that they could be getting enough phos from the mineral to hurt them. I will be feeding the vitafirm hi-mag mineral from mid feb to around june. It has 5% phos in it. Maybe that'll help balance things out.

I hardly feed any grain. Just a few range cubes to keep them coming and sometimes some cotton seed cake if I have a bunch of low quality stockpiled grass to graze. I've heard about people running blood work on the cattle like people have, along with soil and forage testing to determine a custom mix mineral. Sounds like the best approach but I don't have enough cattle to justify that process.

Why are you trying to avoid salt?

We can get free soil tests done by University of Kentucky. Mine shows I am low in Phos.

 

[Otha]

Why are you trying to avoid salt?

We can get free soil tests done by University of Kentucky. Mine shows I am low in Phos.

I was looking to avoid salt mostly during the hot summer months. It seemed to me that the cattle were eating more mineral just for the salt. I had out loose salt which they also ate a lot more of during the same time period. I was seeing the cattle eat more than the recommended amount by as much as double. When I started on the salt free mineral they ate less mineral and continued to eat the salt at a similar rate.

 

[TexasBred]

The "10" appears to have quite a bit of monocalcium phosphate in it ~47% which will regulate intake to some extent, ~30-36% ddg's which will drive intake, ~7.5% calcium carbonate which is fairly neutral for intake, ~5.4% magnesium oxide which tastes bad to cattle, ~4% potassium chloride which is similar to "salt (NaCl)", some of the other ingredients likely increase intake also. So when you add the increases to decreases, and if cattle need phosphorus they will eat it, all together you end up with consumption.

You lost me. Where are you getting 47% phos and 7.5% calcium not to mention 30-36% DDG

 

[Nkline]

You lost me. Where are you getting 47% phos and 7.5% calcium not to mention 30-36% DDG

So the mineral is 10% phosphorus as per label. We know monocalcium phosphate is 21% phosphorus and the only ingredient that contains much phosphorus except for ddgs that only contains around 0.8%. So we take 10% divided by 21% and end up with 47.6%. Monocalcium phosphate is also around 16% calcium so 47% x 16% = ~7.5% is its calcium contribution. So we need 2.5% more calcium to get to the minerals 10% calcium, and our only other ingredient with significant calcium is calcium carbonate which is around 38% calcium so we take 2.5% divided by 38% and get 6.6% calcium carbonate (a little different than what I said, but I figured in more phosphorus from ddgs above) but for the sake of clarity this is how you go about figuring out percentages of ingredients. After I did all the mineral ingredients I could then assume the ddgs was the remainder.

 

[faster horses]

I'm not using it for the high phos content. I just wanted to try a mineral without salt and this was the only one I could find locally. I wasn't aware that they could be getting enough phos from the mineral to hurt them. I will be feeding the vitafirm hi-mag mineral from mid feb to around june. It has 5% phos in it. Maybe that'll help balance things out.

I hardly feed any grain. Just a few range cubes to keep them coming and sometimes some cotton seed cake if I have a bunch of low quality stockpiled grass to graze. I've heard about people running blood work on the cattle like people have, along with soil and forage testing to determine a custom mix mineral. Sounds like the best approach but I don't have enough cattle to justify that process.

Phosphorus won't hurt cattle, when the phos content is too high they will back off and eat less mineral. Not sure where you got that. It is used as a limiter in liquid feed. The more they consume, the more phos is added to keep them at recommended consumption.

 

[Otha]

Phosphorus won't hurt cattle, when the phos content is too high they will back off and eat less mineral. Not sure where you got that. It is used as a limiter in liquid feed. The more they consume, the more phos is added to keep them at recommended consumption.

Ok I miss read your earlier comment. Sounds like the phos is what's limiting the consumption on that particular mineral then.

 

[TexasBred]

Ok I miss read your earlier comment. Sounds like the phos is what's limiting the consumption on that particular mineral then.

Otha no mineral really taste good thus the need to add something to make it palatable. Use too much and the will over-consume.

 

[TexasBred]

T

So the mineral is 10% phosphorus as per label. We know monocalcium phosphate is 21% phosphorus and the only ingredient that contains much phosphorus except for ddgs that only contains around 0.8%. So we take 10% divided by 21% and end up with 47.6%. Monocalcium phosphate is also around 16% calcium so 47% x 16% = ~7.5% is its calcium contribution. So we need 2.5% more calcium to get to the minerals 10% calcium, and our only other ingredient with significant calcium is calcium carbonate which is around 38% calcium so we take 2.5% divided by 38% and get 6.6% calcium carbonate (a little different than what I said, but I figured in more phosphorus from ddgs above) but for the sake of clarity this is how you go about figuring out percentages of ingredients. After I did all the mineral ingredients I could then assume the ddgs was the remainder.

Those numbers aren't even close to being correct.

 

[Nkline]

T

Those numbers aren't even close to being correct.

What are the correct numbers?

 

[TexasBred]

What are the correct numbers?

I don't have my feed formulation computer handy. Will get it Monday and run the exact formulation for you based on the guarantees.

 

[TexasBred]

Not

I tried WInd & Rain with IGR, but they did not like it. Tried Vitaferm Heat and they ate that pretty good, but it was $56/bag. Can't do that…Been using Lonestar 12/6. They seem to like it and the price isn't bad.

Nothing fancy about it but should do the job as long as they are eating it. Price should be right as well.

 

[Farmgirl]

Not

Nothing fancy about it but should do the job as long as they are eating it. Price should be right as well.

I looked at the ingredients on the LS mineral. Way lower than Purina W&R 7.5 I've been feeding. TB could you comment on the differences?

Thanks,
Farmgirl

 

[TexasBred]

I looked at the ingredients on the LS mineral. Way lower than Purina W&R 7.5 I've been feeding. TB could you comment on the differences?

Thanks,
Farmgirl

You have to talk with their folks to understand WHY they do what they do. Notice the LS mineral has a very high level of iron and only 450 ppm copper. Iron is antagonistic to copper so cattle consuming this mineral could have a copper deficiency soon.

 

[anewcomer]

Texasbred, please keep responding to this thread. We're about to learn something we can use!