HerefordSire":1b3gibvc said:
SRBeef":1b3gibvc said:
I don't understand the 117 WW ratio. I see the EPD's show +54 WW and +86 YW where does 117 come from?
I do see good growth from the calves but my number 1 criteria for a bull is calving ease. As far as I can tell from this spring, his calves about fell out of a wide range of larger and smaller cows and a couple first time heifers. That's what I asked Jerry for and that's what he sold me.
I also don't understand your comment about scurs. I thought that they were a negative? Someone else had a post on here recently talking about how his partners backed out of a bull purchase due to scurs...
They don't matter to me, as long as I don't have any full horned animals around. If I do I guess they will just have to be dehorned. Got to take the minuses with the pluses. I have one bull calf that looks fabulous even as young as he is but he seems to be scurred also. Why would scurs increase value??? I'll post this and look for a picture showing his scurs.
Remitall Keynote 20X is scurred.
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... E&9=5B5052
H 8E Embracer 8006 is scurred (look at the REA)
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... E&9=5B515C
CS Boomer 29F is scurred.
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 4&9=5B5F5F
The above three animals, and I am sure I can find many others similar to these, became very valuable.
I think the scurs are a sign of extra heterosis (and possible genetic outlier) within the breed which is partially the reasoning why the above bulls were so great. Additionally, your bull is crossed with horned and polled relatively recently with high quality animals, potentially increasing extra heterosis within the breed, yet the bull is not horned. The scurs represent more underlying value to me.
HerefordSire":1b3gibvc said:
SRBeef":1b3gibvc said:
I don't understand the 117 WW ratio. I see the EPD's show +54 WW and +86 YW where does 117 come from?
I do see good growth from the calves but my number 1 criteria for a bull is calving ease. As far as I can tell from this spring, his calves about fell out of a wide range of larger and smaller cows and a couple first time heifers. That's what I asked Jerry for and that's what he sold me.
I also don't understand your comment about scurs. I thought that they were a negative? Someone else had a post on here recently talking about how his partners backed out of a bull purchase due to scurs...
They don't matter to me, as long as I don't have any full horned animals around. If I do I guess they will just have to be dehorned. Got to take the minuses with the pluses. I have one bull calf that looks fabulous even as young as he is but he seems to be scurred also. Why would scurs increase value??? I'll post this and look for a picture showing his scurs.
Remitall Keynote 20X is scurred.
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... E&9=5B5052
H 8E Embracer 8006 is scurred (look at the REA)
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... E&9=5B515C
CS Boomer 29F is scurred.
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 4&9=5B5F5F
The above three animals, and I am sure I can find many others similar to these, became very valuable.
I think the scurs are a sign of extra heterosis (and possible genetic outlier) within the breed which is partially the reasoning why the above bulls were so great. Additionally, your bull is crossed with horned and polled relatively recently with high quality animals, potentially increasing extra heterosis within the breed, yet the bull is not horned. The scurs represent more underlying value to me.
HS, I appreciate your comments on my bull. I guess as a real rookie in this business I have yet to understand much of it. You say the above bulls are very valuable. However the first two do not seem to be "calving ease" from their EPD's. The third one is much closer.
I don't know how I got into it, but it seems like SHF Rib Eye would be a good combination of Calving ease and other EPD's. Here is his chart:
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-b...0ED0D0C153BDFE6E0E5D9050CF31E1F1BE71A1D1C1811
T21 seems closer to SHF Rib Eye than to the others, except of course for the much better accuracies of the Rib Eye bull.
One thing that does not seem to be addressed by EPD's is disposition. Jerry Huth told me he emphasizes SC and disposition, among the other bull criteria.
I had a situation last Saturday where I had T-21, 4 steers and 2 bred heifers in my relatively small corral with the gates closed as I sorted off a couple steers to ship. Here I am in a small corral with a near 2000 lb bull and what seemed to be a lot of other cattle in a tight space. T-21 was sort of in the way of the tub gate where I was trying to get the steers into.
I just talked to him gently and he moved out of the way with no aggressive behavior at all. He had a calming influence on the rest of the group. It allowed me to sort off these steers into the tub area and get the tub gate closed. T21 just moved to the other end of the corral. I know I still have to be careful around him but I think disposition is especially important when operting in tight quarters as I do.
Rotated pastures twice in the past few days trying to stay ahead of the grass. Each time he just moves by me and follows the rest of the cows. This is as valuable as many of the other EPD's inmy operation.
The vet came over and did a Breeding Soundness exam a couple weeks ago. The vet said his 41.5 scrotal was on the top end of what he sees. Rest of exam was positive also.
So over all I'm very pleased with T-21. It will be interesting to see how the calves develop.
Thanks again for your information.
Jim