Stocker Steve
Well-known member
On average, how much difference do you see in weaning rate percentage between first calf heifers and cows?
Weaning Rate Percentage ?
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Here's a chart that gives your weight adjustments based on age of dam (adjusted to a 205 day WW)
https://www.angus.org/Performance/AHIR/PerfLinks.aspx
https://www.angus.org/Performance/AHIR/PerfLinks.aspx
There shouldn't be a difference. Thats a factor when culling.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
dun":1vpmfh1h said:
I agree with home raised heifers.
A better worded question - - what weaned calf to bred percentage do you see with purchased bred cows vs. purchased bred heifers?
Rafter S
Well-known member
Please define"weaning rate percentage". If you mean number of calves, mine are about the same. If you mean weight there's a big difference, since I wean calves from first calf heifers at no more than 90 days old, and around 8 months from mature cows.
Silver
Well-known member
Rafter S":3q72arl1 said:
I'm sure you have a reason for weaning at 90 days, hoping you'll share.
Rafter S
Well-known member
The heifer usually breeds back within a few days after weaning the calf, and I just think it's asking a lot of a 2-year old heifer to raise a calf to 8 months old and breed back on time, all while she's still growing herself. I know I'm giving up some money up front, but I believe it pays off in the long run. If you disagree I won't argue with you, but this has been working well for me for a long time.
cattleman99
Well-known member
Personally I don't want those types of heifers in my herd if they can't breed back while raising a calf. A lot of them look real rough every year after weaning for a bit but they either get in calf or hit the road. They get back in shape over the winter and look great by calving. After a few years of hard culling it has paid off with increased herd fertility. When I started I would give some a second chance if they came in open. Not anymore. But we all have different ways of making it work.Rafter S":1cmbs6ab said:
farmerjan
Well-known member
Because I wait to breed my first calf heifers until 18 months on average, they have a little more growth and seem to be able to raise the calf and breed back without any problem. Most of the heifers are in the 27-30 month age when they first calve. Many say that we wait too long. And I say I am only losing half a year than if they were to have calved at 24 months. And I don't pull calves either. Yes, we use an easy calving bull, but It has been years since we pulled a calf out of anything and then if I remember right it was one that was backwards, out of a cow; and my wuss of a brown swiss that didn't want to put the effort into having a 65 lb black angus calf. Needless to say, she didn't stay in the nurse cow herd too long.
But, I have a couple of heifers that got in with a neighbors cattle when some wind took some trees down on the fence. They got bred and calved at 23 months. They are doing an okay job but not great. They are small, and yes I am supplementing them with grain. They have adequate milk, but the calves will not wean that big. There were 5 in that group of 10 that did not wind up preg that we bred 6 months later. They have calved, they are bigger, they have more milk, and the calves are growing faster. I held the others back so they will all get bred now for fall calves like they were all supposed to have. Doubt the earlier bred ones will ever get the growth the older ones have.
This is what works for us. I do not want to raise/feed grain/ or otherwise deal with small calves that I have to pull off a heifer like RafterS, but that works for them. I do wean the calves off the first calf heifers no later than 7 months so the they have a little extra time to get some weight back on and get a little longer rest before they have their second calf. I may sacrifice 6 months at the outset, but we have cows that were born here that are in their teens and still producing yearly. On occasion I will move a heifer to the other calving group ( we calve spring and fall) if she comes up open, and has raised a super calf the first time around. But they get only 1 chance to get a move. And on occasion we have had a good cow come up open and sometimes we will give them a second chance. Again, they get one turn at a second chance. But there are others that come up open and they get a ticket out on the next truck/trailer. So we are trying in our own way to try to improve the fertility also. I want a calf yearly, and I expect them to do it with little or no excuses. I also realize that there are circumstances sometimes that will allow me to cut them a little slack. I am not perfect either.
But, I have a couple of heifers that got in with a neighbors cattle when some wind took some trees down on the fence. They got bred and calved at 23 months. They are doing an okay job but not great. They are small, and yes I am supplementing them with grain. They have adequate milk, but the calves will not wean that big. There were 5 in that group of 10 that did not wind up preg that we bred 6 months later. They have calved, they are bigger, they have more milk, and the calves are growing faster. I held the others back so they will all get bred now for fall calves like they were all supposed to have. Doubt the earlier bred ones will ever get the growth the older ones have.
This is what works for us. I do not want to raise/feed grain/ or otherwise deal with small calves that I have to pull off a heifer like RafterS, but that works for them. I do wean the calves off the first calf heifers no later than 7 months so the they have a little extra time to get some weight back on and get a little longer rest before they have their second calf. I may sacrifice 6 months at the outset, but we have cows that were born here that are in their teens and still producing yearly. On occasion I will move a heifer to the other calving group ( we calve spring and fall) if she comes up open, and has raised a super calf the first time around. But they get only 1 chance to get a move. And on occasion we have had a good cow come up open and sometimes we will give them a second chance. Again, they get one turn at a second chance. But there are others that come up open and they get a ticket out on the next truck/trailer. So we are trying in our own way to try to improve the fertility also. I want a calf yearly, and I expect them to do it with little or no excuses. I also realize that there are circumstances sometimes that will allow me to cut them a little slack. I am not perfect either.
farmerjan
Well-known member
If the calf is born alive, then they raise it unless like the time we had a pack of dogs get in and killed 2 calves. And if they somehow have a dead calf, I will graft a calf on them so I don't lose the lactation. Heifers or cows. So live birth to weaning is 100%. We maybe have to graft one or two calves in a year out of over 150 cows calving. Last year I didn't have to graft any. I do put calves on my nurse cows but that is a whole different enterprise. We don't buy any bred heifers anymore and buying bred cows we usually average 9 raised out of 10 born. More often have a calf born dead than lose a live one even on the bought cows. And I have successfully grafted a calf on some bought cows, but they are iffy. Our home raised ones will take a calf 99.9% of the time if they lose theirs. Had a home raised cow that had a dead calf. Grafted one on. Had it 10 days, got under a foundation of an old house & got stuck and dead when we found it. Grafted a 2nd calf on her and she raised it. God bless her, she was so wound up that I thought she would just go crazy without her baby. Took her 2 weeks to fully accept her "new calf" but when we turned her out in a different place than where she lost the other, she was very protective when the other cows came up to check it out. That doesn't happen often. Bought cows that lose a calf just leave most of the time.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
farmerjan":27gvzykc said:
Bought cows are less maternal, or ?
HDRider
Well-known member
I been wanting to ask, what does "adjusted" mean? Does that mean deducting birth weight from weaning weight?Jeanne - Simme Valley":2pgmc3ox said:
farmerjan
Well-known member
Stocker Steve":5mshq2aa said:
I don't think that they are any less maternal necessarily; it's just that often with bought cows , you don't know what/where they have come from; and many are not as easy to work with because they may have been out running in places where they seldom see people or only on a 4 wheeler or whatever. Many are more nervous or less friendly or just don't want to be in a pen. It's hard to work with an animal that is upset because their baby is dead, and doesn't like or trust you either. Our cattle are used to being penned for different reasons, they aren't all that afraid of being in the barn, they have gone through a chute many times, and they know what grain is. Bought cows come with no written history and you don't know if the person who had them before chased and hollered to get them in so if they see a barn or a pen they associate it with "something bad" happening to them. It's a conditioning thing from their past. We bought a group of cows from some friends. These cows only saw people up close twice a year to get them in the pens. They were run with 4 wheelers and pickups to get penned. The rest of the time they were checked on by someone in a truck that never got out except to maybe put out salt. We had them for 5-8 years after, and none of the cows wanted to go into the catch pens even with some of our tamer cows running with them and coming right in. They might go in, but always had their heads up looking for a way out, even with the gates being wide open. They got culled with age etc., and few of their heifers ever stayed because of the conditioning the cows had they passed on to their calves about being unwilling to come in and be around people.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
In an adjusted WW and YW, they do take our the BW in the calculations, then add it back into the final number. Each breed has their own "age" adjustment .dun":1m291juw said:
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Had that work problem this spring. Bought some breds that liked to hang around ground too rough for a vehicle. I could not pen them like ours. Shot one for burger rather than buying a horse and a dog. Another goes to the sales barn tomorrow.
talltimber
Well-known member
Something I thought interesting. The weaned rate was closer to what I had been told and experienced of 10%, but a small sample size.
NEFarmwife
Well-known member
Using adjusted, also allows you to weigh them all at the same time when working them and seeing with the 205, comparables. I find it interesting to see which had the highest and lowest among the herd and who their sire was (We AI our commercial herd)dun":ict6r5v9 said:
The adjusted does consider the age of the damn.
cattleman99":yb7bzy15 said:
We run ours the same way, everyone has a method that works for them. It is asking a lot from a young heifer but it has paid off with a very maternal cow herd.
Gizmom
