weaned bottle calf

[Dixieangus]

Ok so i had a bottle calf that was practically skin n bones when i got her and fed it twice daily and all. Battle scours heavily but she lived through it.. Got her weaned about a month after on the bottle she was eating about 2 pounds of 14% protein pellets....Well the calf is about 3 months old now and maybe a hundred pounds. Not skinny or anything just little she is eating about 3 quarts of 14% pellets and she still has hay even though she doesnt eat it. She eats the ryegrass mostly.. Just filled the feeder up with soyhulls so shell have free choice to that. and she has been wormed. my question is will she grow. And am i doing something wrong..........Oh and on her ears around the edges there is no hair..she lost it and its kind of like a scab. Any idea on what it is??? thanks

 

[larryshoat]

2 lbs of 14% is a little light to wean, I would rather see 3lbs of 18%,but I certainly don't advocate a big change at this point. From time to time we get a small one and it can be surprising how well they catch up. The hair loss in young calves is usually caused by cryptosporidia. She don't need a lot of roughage right now she needs energy, high quality feed.

Larry

 

[Caustic Burno]

Seen some bottle calves do ok from the start seen some that just never could get a good start.
Never seen a bottle calf grow off as well as on the cow. When I lost my nurse cow a few years back I quit messing with them.

 

[dun]

Just remember that you;re gonna need to keep graining at a minimum of 1% (2 is better) of it's body weight as it grows.

 

[novaman]

If you want a bottle calf to grow you have to give them the feed to do so. Calves will never grow well on 14% feed. They should be eating at the minimum 3 pounds of feed before weaning should be considered. The feed should be 18% protein as calves need lots of protein to grow properly. Personally I use 22% as I feel the calves grow better on it. Calves are the most efficient animals in utilizing protein so why not give it to them and get them off to a good start? And why does everyone seem to think a calf NEEDS roughage!? They don't. Feed them a high quality grain and stop filling them up with slow passing, low nutrient density materials like hay!!!

Caustic, I can get bottle calves to grow out as well as a calf on a cow. The problem is it costs me far more to get them on the same path.

 

[cowgirl252]

forage is good for calves being weaned that came from 3 vets, but you do need high protein diet as well. My bottle fed grow as good as my other calves . they just need patience. I had one that loved watermelon and fruits. The main thing is to have food available 24 hrs a day.Each one is different , just learn what they prefer and go from there.

 

[novaman]

forage is good for calves being weaned that came from 3 vets

Generally speaking forage does less good and more bad for a calf. I just read a study that said a very small amount of forage didn't hinder growth but calves have no problems with straight grain so why bother with forage? The rumen develops when volatile fatty acids (VFA's) are produced from the fermentation of feedstuffs. Grain will produce far more VFA's than any forage will so if you want to develop the rumen rapidly you feed grain. If you prefer to feed calves milk longer and have a higher cost of feeding them than go ahead and feed forage. If you feed forage to preweaned calves you run the risk of weaning a calf too early before the rumen is developed enough to support the calf once milk feeding has ceased. My calves will munch around on fresh straw bedding anyway so while I don't technically feed forage, they do get a small amount.

 

[TexasBred]

Ok so i had a bottle calf that was practically skin n bones when i got her and fed it twice daily and all. Battle scours heavily but she lived through it.. Got her weaned about a month after on the bottle she was eating about 2 pounds of 14% protein pellets....Well the calf is about 3 months old now and maybe a hundred pounds. Not skinny or anything just little she is eating about 3 quarts of 14% pellets and she still has hay even though she doesnt eat it. She eats the ryegrass mostly.. Just filled the feeder up with soyhulls so shell have free choice to that. and she has been wormed. my question is will she grow. And am i doing something wrong..........Oh and on her ears around the edges there is no hair..she lost it and its kind of like a scab.

Keep the calf on the starter post weaning but DO allow the calf the opportunity to decide on it's on when it wants to begin eating forage. Don't worry about the volatile fatty acids. They will be there, and go very high once the calf is weaned off milk and kept on the calf starter but the added forage will be what truly develops the rumen. Never been able to find a 22% calf starter around here but the 18% would do you a good job. Worm your calf, give it an injection of Vit A-D as well as E with Selenium and let him enjoy his ryegrass. If the manure gets a little thin it's normal. By the way, what kind of milk replacer were you using? Hopefully it too was high quality.

 

[novaman]

Don't worry about the volatile fatty acids. They will be there, and go very high once the calf is weaned off milk and kept on the calf starter but the added forage will be what truly develops the rumen. Never been able to find a 22% calf starter around here but the 18% would do you a good job.

I was simply making a point when I brought up the VFA's. Many times on these boards it is simply opinions that are stated. I agree nobody should have to worry about VFA's but it is proof that feeding forage too early is counterproductive. Contrary to what you say, forage is not what truly develops the rumen, and proper rumen development is critical in order for a calf to excel once weaned off milk.

I do agree that the 18% would do a good job but the 22% would do a better job, but than anything is better than 14%.

I don't mean to butt heads with you on this one TB but there have been many studies done and the information you are giving is the old school way of thinking. Current studies are showing old methods were not necessarily best practice, especially on forage feeding. It was believed up until not long ago that the fiber in forage was responsible for rumen development. This theory has since been dismissed. It is now known that fatty acid production is the driving force behind the development of the rumen in a preweaned calf.

 

[TexasBred]

Nova I guess you could call me old school in some ways....It's been nearly 40 years since my schooling. But a cow/calf is still a cow/calf. I agree with you on feeding high protein starters but i also believe in aiding the adjustment to forage as quickly as possible. The rumen begins growing at two to three weeks of age, depending on when hay and grain are fed in addition to the milk it receives from the cow or a bottle. Higher grain diets do increase VFA production (sometimes to a level that is detrimental to the calf) but also lower ph which can lead to other problems and almost totally eliminate bacteria that utilize forage in the diet. This is when you'll have "slug feeding" in calves and cows. Get your ration out of balance and you'll see it in your lactating cattle in your barn. All you have to do is check your test results to see it. IN calves there has to be an adjustment period because we are developing grass eaters. When you begin the transition is up to each individual but it needs to begin prior to weaning and finished soon after weaning. Studies are being done all the time. Read both sides before deciding to chisel one into stone. You raise holsteins primarily. We use to raise over 400 a year as well. All were introduced to forage early and encouraged to eat forage along with the calf starter feed. Ours flourished....so...my system works for me...yours works for you. nuff said. ;-)

 

[novaman]

IN calves there has to be an adjustment period because we are developing grass eaters. When you begin the transition is up to each individual but it needs to begin prior to weaning and finished soon after weaning.

I realize you were successful in raising calves with your method. I've talked to many people that feed some sort of forage very early on and claim to have no problems. If that works, great. Everything I have read is saying that the first 56 days of life will determine the productivity of that heifer for the rest of her life. This is the critical period when mammary development is taking place etc. So while I can see how people say their calves do just great on forage, I have to question how much they are giving up by not feeding the calf to its potential. There is no way a calf can get enough nutrients to meet its potential by stuffing itself with forage.

I do agree that there must be a transition period to forage. I don't agree that this transition must take place prior to weaning. I always hold off on forage until they are eating grain well enough to keep from slumping after they are weaned. The forage is slowly introduced probably a week after they are weaned and only the highest quality alfalfa on the place is offered.

Everybody has a method I realize that. It just bothers me when people post about their bottle calf not doing well and not understanding why. They need nutrients and lots of them. Plain and simple.

 

[TexasBred]

Nova...Dixie is turning these calves out on rye grass. Do you know what rye grass tests on a dry matter basis which I know is what you use? Keep in mind that it is 85% water (Not much fill factor there my man). Tell me that a half pound of dry matter from that type grazing will keep it from eating grain. What the calf gets from that rye grass will be superior to almost any alfalfa you can give it. If the calf is use to eating a grain ration grazing will not keep t from eating the 3-4 lbs. per head per day you want him to eat. Hopefully at this point he's got feed available free choice and you've switched from a starter to a grower, grain has been reduced in the mix and you're feeding more fiber in the grower anyway.

 

[Victoria]

It just bothers me when people post about their bottle calf not doing well and not understanding why. They need nutrients and lots of them. Plain and simple.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[TexasBred]

It just bothers me when people post about their bottle calf not doing well and not understanding why. They need nutrients and lots of them. Plain and simple.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Even nutrients can be "overdone". They need a more complete nutritional program.

 

[novaman]

Even nutrients can be "overdone". They need a more complete nutritional program.

While that should be obvious I suppose it shouldn't be assumed that all would know that. The point I was making is that in most cases the calf is underfed and doesn't grow out well as a result. In order for a bottle calf to do well they need a good environment along with a proper nutrition program. I think most do a good job on giving them a proper environment, but the nutrition side is lacking. I know several dairies that still feed 2 quarts of 20/20 replacer and complain because their calves never grow worth a darn. I just have to shake my head.

 

[TexasBred]

Even nutrients can be "overdone". They need a more complete nutritional program.

While that should be obvious I suppose it shouldn't be assumed that all would know that. The point I was making is that in most cases the calf is underfed and doesn't grow out well as a result. In order for a bottle calf to do well they need a good environment along with a proper nutrition program. I think most do a good job on giving them a proper environment, but the nutrition side is lacking. I know several dairies that still feed 2 quarts of 20/20 replacer and complain because their calves never grow worth a darn. I just have to shake my head.

I do believe that was exactly what I said Nova. As for those dairy guys...yep...grit your teeth and walk off. Anymore of that is a waste of time.