We need more Lower Tier Bulls

[Stocker Steve]

Selling 80 virgin bulls by the pound at one of our barns next week. Guy bought a bunch of spendy BA cows, AI ed them, and then sold out a year ago - - but kept bull calves and yearlings.

Selling a couple dozen more the following week.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Because Black Angus are by far the most common breed in this area, there are several producers that cater to the demand for cheap low end bulls. I don't see how it pencils out. They of course don't cull. Every bull calf is sold as Seedstock. But they feed these bulls until they are a year to 18 months old and then sell them for only 1400 to 1500. Many have pedigrees but remain unregistered. The first bull I bought back in 2011 came from one of these farms - Casper. I actually ask the guy to register him for an extra 50 dollars. He was not a good bull, in fact, the first time I posted his picture here, you guys dressed him down. He was extremely docile and if anyone remembers he had one magnificent quality - he could talk. But only to me.

That right there is one thing IMO that has suppressed prices cause hatchet a$$ Angus bulls are a dime a dozenhere.
Not picking on the Angus guys I had to search hard for my current Angus

I agree with that CB. We need to be careful, looks like we are patronizing each other. Dam that would be bad so I will just add a little something to show that you and I still can mix it up.

I can show you some Angus bulls right here in Mayslick than got more azz than Kim Kardashian.

I bought Obama as a yearling after all the cows were bred that way he would be two before having to go to work.
The boy is thick like Angus are supposed to be nuts,guts and butts.

 

[dun]

Where is Demetrius when he's needed?

 

[callmefence]

One thing to note, and it's kind of been hinted to here but maybe not expressed into words, is there are tons of "backyard farmers" or "hobby farmers" out there who own 1 to 4 cows on their 5 acres. Their only goal is to get a live calf born every year. They don't have access to A.I. or the facilities to A.I. their cows -- or don't even know what A.I. is (yes, it's true, I hear that every year from someone who owns cattle when I talk to them). They just want a bull -- any bull -- to come in and get their cows bred. Doesn't matter what the calves look like or how they perform, they just want a live calf that they can butcher for their family down the road. If it walks, has four legs and can get the job done, that's all that they want. Bottom line. I personally don't agree with that philosophy and that's not how I or many of us here on this forum operate, but that's how it is.

Goes the other way as well. Only a handful of registered cows. Has em all ai bred to the latest craze bull . Pours grain outta bucket every morning to keep fat on their back and thinks every calf is a prize.
They generally hang in small cliques. The only place they can get what they think their cows are worth is selling to each other.

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

I buy the best quality bulls, heifers, hay etc... I can afford that will still make money for me and not just any junk just to have something to eat my grass or play hobby Ronald McDonald. SOB, Many spend their money on everything but their livestock such as brand new trucks, fancy long vacations, brand new ATV/RTV/UTV, hunting pleasures, brand new livestock trailers, etc...... and no their money isn't coming from saving their pennies buying cheap crappy inputs for the farm. I try to stay dependable. Dependable truck, dependable trailer, dependable atv, good dependable bull, etc... Probably will never have the best of anything but I ain't neglecting something to have the best of something else.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I buy the best quality bulls, heifers, hay etc... I can afford that will still make money for me and not just any junk just to have something to eat my grass or play hobby Ronald McDonald. SOB, Many spend their money on everything but their livestock such as brand new trucks, fancy long vacations, brand new ATV/RTV/UTV, hunting pleasures, brand new livestock trailers, etc...... and no their money isn't coming from saving their pennies buying cheap crappy inputs for the farm. I try to stay dependable. Dependable truck, dependable trailer, dependable atv, good dependable bull, etc... Probably will never have the best of anything but I ain't neglecting something to have the best of something else.

Does a 1977 Massey qualify?

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

CB, if it gets the job done. I've never had a Massey so I can't speak to much about them.

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB, if it gets the job done. I've never had a Massey so I can't speak to much about them.

Still cranks and goes to work the warranty is about up. I prefer it to my new one an 06 NH. I have no clue how many hours or miles that old girl put in the hay fields. The odometer has 10k hours on it and it didn't work half the time for several years.

 

[callmefence]

Late last summer with prices crashing I bought the sorriest old bunch of broke mouth skanks the sale barn had. Short bred less than 500.00 apiece in em . A mild winter , good oat pasture fair hay , and a little cottonseed. They shaped up pretty good. Had their calves. I've been hauling the pair's back to the same barn.
Have to go out early in the morning and watch em mother up so I can figure out which calf goes with which cow. Been getting 1000.00 to 1200.00 per pair. Close to doubling my money in 8 months. Sorry looking old cattle but a good looking bottom line.
Thinking about a new atv... :hat:

 

[RanchMan90]

Late last summer with prices crashing I bought the sorriest old bunch of broke mouth skanks the sale barn had. Short bred less than 500.00 apiece in em . A mild winter , good oat pasture fair hay , and a little cottonseed. They shaped up pretty good. Had their calves. I've been hauling the pair's back to the same barn.
Have to go out early in the morning and watch em mother up so I can figure out which calf goes with which cow. Been getting 1000.00 to 1200.00 per pair. Close to doubling my money in 8 months. Sorry looking old cattle but a good looking bottom line.
Thinking about a new atv... :hat:

That sounds like a home run :cowboy: The amount of money coming in is not nearly as important as the difference between what is coming in and what is going out.

 

[Bright Raven]

Late last summer with prices crashing I bought the sorriest old bunch of broke mouth skanks the sale barn had. Short bred less than 500.00 apiece in em . A mild winter , good oat pasture fair hay , and a little cottonseed. They shaped up pretty good. Had their calves. I've been hauling the pair's back to the same barn.
Have to go out early in the morning and watch em mother up so I can figure out which calf goes with which cow. Been getting 1000.00 to 1200.00 per pair. Close to doubling my money in 8 months. Sorry looking old cattle but a good looking bottom line.
Thinking about a new atv... :hat:

Good for you. I like to hear when someone uses their head and gets rewarded for their effort. It is not a surprise to me to hear a success story from you. You are a doer.

 

[talltimber]

Good job, fence. Sounds like you got it figured out.

If I had done that, they would have died before I got them home, or aborted/not milked/take your pick

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Actually this is a niche market I'm developing at this time. In the past six months I've sold 3 purebred but unregistered Angus bulls at $2,500 per head and 2 at $2,000. These were a coming 2 year olds or had already reached that age. The fella who bought the last one for $2,000 also bought 2 yearlings at $1,500 each. I plan to keep a few bulls available year round at various ages and stages of development to sell to guys who want quality but need a bull "when they need a bull" and don't want to pay a ton of money for them.

Starting the same program with bred heifers this fall.

That's a good idea if you have a base that trust you to say what it is. Even for just one season a fellow could get his cattle covered by a good bull.
Sell them, the bulls commercial and get a fair amount of his bull money back.
If you don't mind. Why are you not registering these?

Mainly because I live 4 hours away and my farm manager has enough to deal with as is and I can't ask him to weigh them at birth. When the day comes that I'm on site I will start registering all the bulls and heifers that qualify.

 

[Nesikep]

Old massey? OK, I think this one is 1979, 3500 hrs and in perfect mechanical shape (and body now too)..
I know that in 20 years I'll get more than I put into it, while buying a new tractor I'd be lucky to get half.. and in 40 years from now the new tractor will be scrap, this one will still work.

 

[Bigfoot]

I have noticed, the largest proponents of high priced bulls, are people with bulls to sell.

 

[Brute 23]

I have noticed, the largest proponents of high priced bulls, are people with bulls to sell.

:lol2: :nod: Do you blame them? :lol2:

 

[Son of Butch]

Local sale barn sold a dozen 'black breeding bulls' weighing 1000 - 1600 lbs $1200 - $2100 most of them brought $1550

 

[elkwc]

I have noticed, the largest proponents of high priced bulls, are people with bulls to sell.

+1

 

[elkwc]

I will post from the buyers side with some of my thoughts. In my opinion of looking at bulls for the last 4 years of several breeds but mainly Herefords and Angus as that is what there are more of in my area. In my opinion there are already too many lower tier bulls around. Some aren't priced that way but they are quality wise. In fact many should of had the knife or band used on them at a young age.

I believe a PB breeder should make a profit. But in todays market it is hard for me to pencil in anything over $4,000 and make it work. Although I did offer 5 once last year for a very nice bull that brought 11 thousand a few weeks ago. And offered $4,500 for a couple and got turned down on both of them. Priced another last fall that was a fall yearling that the seller said he wouldn't take a dime less than $5,750. I was prepared to give up to $4,500 for him. He took around 3 thousand for him at a recent breed sale over 200 miles from his ranch. Had the same thing happen last year. Doesn't make sense to me and other commercial bull buyers that they will turn down more at home and then feed them several more months, haul them a distance, pay commision and take a lot less. What I've found with most herds but not all is that the top 10-25% of the bulls they have for sale are worth keeping as bulls the rest should of been sold at the sale barn as a steer. Just because they fed him for several months doesn't make him a bull worth using on cows. Likewise I've seen several bulls in sales away from here of reasonable quality bringing less than two. I hate to see quality bulls bringing those amounts as I'm afraid the good breeders will quit going to the trouble of saving and developing them. The current market here is flooded with bulls. We have decided to wait and see what the market does and also see how a bull gets along that was a little crippled. I feel we will be able to buy a bull later at a reasonable price if we need one. Hopefully this market will encourage the breeders to use the knife on those that should of been steers. In the period of high demand for bulls 2-3 years ago too many breeders didn't use the knife snd many started keeping and selling non registered bulls. Now they all have bulls in their pens. I'm sure many will end up being sold by the pound which is where most should of been sold.

 

[Bright Raven]

The average cow/calf operation in Kentucky is about 20 head. They buy bulls for about $1500 or less. As someone mentioned, many buy culled bulls at the Stockyards.

The cost share program for improvement of herd genetics is intended to encourage producers to use better bulls. It has helped.

I bought my first bull (a registered Angus) for about $1800. When his photo was put up on Cattle Today back in 2013, he was massacred. I had him about 16 months and sold him. At that time, I began to AI. I still needed a bull so I bought a Rocking P bull ( registered Bull with Built Right pedigree) for $2500. I kept Spartacus about 2 years and leased him. While on lease, a guy saw him and I sold him. For the last two years, I have been total AI. I do not have a bull and that is a pleasure. I have only 16 cows, all registered. So far, they have bred back AI without any problems.

I don't want a bull to deal with but if I did, I would raise my own. I would not pay more than $2500 for a bull.