We may all be missing the boat, by not raising Corrientes!

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Warren Allison

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This weekend, I took my horses down to a friend's place, to help him him gather, pen and sort some cattle to take to the sale on Monday. He has about 120 head of Corriente cows, that he breeds to either Angus or Brangus bulls every year, This year he had split the difference and used Ultra Black bulls. These cattle are on about 200 acres of old cut-over timber. It is ( or was) overgrown with Kudzu when he put the cows in last January. Broom sage, Johnson grass as tall as my saddle, all kinds of briars and honey suckle is what these cows live on. There is a creek and a pond on the property, and he keeps free choice salt and minerals in the corral. This pasture hasn't ever been seeded with grass, or fertilized or had a bush hog on it. This is our quail and rabbit hunting property. so, we are rounding up these cows, probably around 700 lbs each, with big, black, polled calves nearly as tall as they are! These cows calved in February, so they are right at 6 months old. He only leaves his bulls in for 30 days, and after that he pulls them. He puts in a Corriente bull for cleanup. He gets about 10-12 Corriente calves each year, which is what he wants to do. There were 9 Corriente calves this year, and yeah, they were 3-4 weeks younger than the black calves but they were half the size. 300-350 lbs is my guess.... good size for Corrientes that age. We hauled 50 of these black steers and one bull calf that got missed at castration time Sunday night. They weighed between 500 and 540 lbs! That's pretty damned impressive...700 lbs cows ( all fat as a tick by the way, on sh*t for forage) weaning 540 lb calves.... about 80% of their own weight. They carried the heifers Monday morning , so I didn't see how much they weighed. But he just told me the steers brought $1.46 lowest to $1.58 highest. Heifers were $1.36 to $1.46. The one bull calf was $1.54. The same price as the other black calves did that day, and higher by 10-20 cents than red, white, brindled etc calves did.

There is no way he has more than $350-$400 in these cows...many were closer to $200- $250, depending on when he got them. He has virtually no additional costs in them, except for salt and minerals. When they calved in February, I went down there to rope the calves for castration and ear tagging, and Sunday was literally the first time he had been there since February. There were NO black calves out of commercial Hereford, Braford, Black Baldy, Charolais, Simmental, Gelbiev, Limosine, Wyenoogie or even Angus or Brangus that brought more per pound that day. None from these kind of cows that weaned calves at 6 months at 75-80% of their mommas' weight....with zero feed, hay, medical or TIME costs involved. For what a good cow or heifer of those breeds cost, you can buy 4-5 of these Corrientes, and feed those 4 or 5 for less money than you can another commercial beef cow. and keep 4 or 5 on the same acreage it takes for 1 or 2 commercial beef cows.

IF I ever decide to fool with cow/calf operations again,. then this is exactly what I'd do: Buy these $300 cows that will give me a $700-$750 calf the first year, with zero labor, zero calving problems,. zero vet costs, and virtually zero feed costs. Like Longhorns, Corriente are as heat, disease, insect and parasite resistant as a Brahma, and as cold tolerant as a Highlander.
 

puzzled in oregon

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This weekend, I took my horses down to a friend's place, to help him him gather, pen and sort some cattle to take to the sale on Monday. He has about 120 head of Corriente cows, that he breeds to either Angus or Brangus bulls every year, This year he had split the difference and used Ultra Black bulls. These cattle are on about 200 acres of old cut-over timber. It is ( or was) overgrown with Kudzu when he put the cows in last January. Broom sage, Johnson grass as tall as my saddle, all kinds of briars and honey suckle is what these cows live on. There is a creek and a pond on the property, and he keeps free choice salt and minerals in the corral. This pasture hasn't ever been seeded with grass, or fertilized or had a bush hog on it. This is our quail and rabbit hunting property. so, we are rounding up these cows, probably around 700 lbs each, with big, black, polled calves nearly as tall as they are! These cows calved in February, so they are right at 6 months old. He only leaves his bulls in for 30 days, and after that he pulls them. He puts in a Corriente bull for cleanup. He gets about 10-12 Corriente calves each year, which is what he wants to do. There were 9 Corriente calves this year, and yeah, they were 3-4 weeks younger than the black calves but they were half the size. 300-350 lbs is my guess.... good size for Corrientes that age. We hauled 50 of these black steers and one bull calf that got missed at castration time Sunday night. They weighed between 500 and 540 lbs! That's pretty damned impressive...700 lbs cows ( all fat as a tick by the way, on sh*t for forage) weaning 540 lb calves.... about 80% of their own weight. They carried the heifers Monday morning , so I didn't see how much they weighed. But he just told me the steers brought $1.46 lowest to $1.58 highest. Heifers were $1.36 to $1.46. The one bull calf was $1.54. The same price as the other black calves did that day, and higher by 10-20 cents than red, white, brindled etc calves did.

There is no way he has more than $350-$400 in these cows...many were closer to $200- $250, depending on when he got them. He has virtually no additional costs in them, except for salt and minerals. When they calved in February, I went down there to rope the calves for castration and ear tagging, and Sunday was literally the first time he had been there since February. There were NO black calves out of commercial Hereford, Braford, Black Baldy, Charolais, Simmental, Gelbiev, Limosine, Wyenoogie or even Angus or Brangus that brought more per pound that day. None from these kind of cows that weaned calves at 6 months at 75-80% of their mommas' weight....with zero feed, hay, medical or TIME costs involved. For what a good cow or heifer of those breeds cost, you can buy 4-5 of these Corrientes, and feed those 4 or 5 for less money than you can another commercial beef cow. and keep 4 or 5 on the same acreage it takes for 1 or 2 commercial beef cows.

IF I ever decide to fool with cow/calf operations again,. then this is exactly what I'd do: Buy these $300 cows that will give me a $700-$750 calf the first year, with zero labor, zero calving problems,. zero vet costs, and virtually zero feed costs. Like Longhorns, Corriente are as heat, disease, insect and parasite resistant as a Brahma, and as cold tolerant as a Highlander.
I tried Corriente bulls with my cows, biggest problem was getting rid of the spotted coloration on the calves, pretty but costs me at least a $20.00/hwt loss on my calves.. Interesting the opposite cross is consistent with solid colored calves. The horns were easy to get rid of. The Corriente are a very hardy critter.
:)1628629024869.png
 

Lee VanRoss

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Warren> I live just south of where it is winter 9 months of the year and the other 3 months are November, December and January!
I tinker with Corrientes and Red Angus cross. I can agree with a lot of what you have to say about Corrientes and even
add they are one of the most intelligent breed of cattle I have worked with., however they are not in the same league
as a Highlander when it comes to cold.
 

moses388

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Sunday was literally the first time he had been there since February.
I feel sorry for the cattle when people say things like this. In this case, I figure the statement is not true. Someone had to be there:
-to put the bulls in
-to take the bulls out
-to put in the cleanup bull
-to take out the cleanup bull
-to refill the salt when it's low
-to refill the mineral when it's low
-to maintain the fence
-to make sure there's water during a drought
-to check the insect/fly load
-to check for lameness/disease/pinkeye

I would consider it animal cruelty, if domesticated animals had zero human contact for 6 months.
 

JParrott

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Not sure I do much more than that myself. Maintenance and property is what drives my costs - machines, fence, fuel, lime, fertilizer, seed, etc.

Mineral blocks, some 7 way once or twice a year, and a jug of Ultraboss is about all I put into my cattle. They either stay well, get sick and get better, or get sick and die.

Cows are cheap. The farm is expensive. I just have a preference for grass and clover, not thistles, weeds, and brush.
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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I tried Corriente bulls with my cows, biggest problem was getting rid of the spotted coloration on the calves, pretty but costs me at least a $20.00/hwt loss on my calves.. Interesting the opposite cross is consistent with solid colored calves. The horns were easy to get rid of. The Corriente are a very hardy critter.
:)View attachment 7047
Dunno why anyone would do it this way, other than Corrientes make excellent heifer bulls. The point is to use these cheap, virtually maintenance free cows, and breed them to homozygous for black ,Angus or Brangus bulls. The calves are black, polled, and look like most any other purebred or cross bred Angus or Brangus calf. They are the same size as an Angus x beef cow calf.
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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They can eat the place down to the ground like sheep too….but no. Be aware you might need a net wire fence to hold them too.
I have had many of them in my life, and they are more like a goat than sheep. They browse as much as they graze. Never had any that were any more or any less harder on a fence than any other beef cattle.
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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Warren> I live just south of where it is winter 9 months of the year and the other 3 months are November, December and January!
I tinker with Corrientes and Red Angus cross. I can agree with a lot of what you have to say about Corrientes and even
add they are one of the most intelligent breed of cattle I have worked with., however they are not in the same league
as a Highlander when it comes to cold.
Maybe not, but in the US, from Canada to Mexico, until the first Herefords and Angus appeared in the l;ate 1800's, Criollo type cattle were the ONLY type cattle raised on ranches for the market that the railroads and Birdseye created. Longhorns were the 1st cattle ever used to begin ranches in the northern states. They will do as well as any British or Continental beef breed up north.
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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Not sure I do much more than that myself. Maintenance and property is what drives my costs - machines, fence, fuel, lime, fertilizer, seed, etc.
None of these costs exists except maybe fence repair occassionally.
Mineral blocks, some 7 way once or twice a year, and a jug of Ultraboss is about all I put into my cattle. They either stay well, get sick and get better, or get sick and die.
No meds, wormer, fly or insect repellent used on these cows, and they don't get sick and die.
Cows are cheap. The farm is expensive. I just have a preference for grass and clover, not thistles, weeds, and brush.
And you missed the whole point. Yes, you could spend anywhere from 10's of thousands to 6 figures ( depending on what equipment you own,. like a dozer) clearing off these 200 acres, plating grass, fertilizing and spaying and liming it each year, bushogging, etc. You could spend $125k, $150k, even $200k buying 100 beef cows ( instead of the probably $30k or less he has in these cows). and you'd have the costs of wormer, pest control, vaccinations, vet bills, the loss of calves ( and cows) you couldn't get to in time with problem calving. nd, you put these same bull in with them, and when you weaned those claves at 6 mos, they wouldn't weigh more than these did. Your check would have been the same as his was yesterday.
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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I feel sorry for the cattle when people say things like this. In this case, I figure the statement is not true. Someone had to be there:
-to put the bulls in
-to take the bulls out
-to put in the cleanup bull
-to take out the cleanup bull
-to refill the salt when it's low
-to refill the mineral when it's low
-to maintain the fence
-to make sure there's water during a drought
-to check the insect/fly load
-to check for lameness/disease/pinkeye

I would consider it animal cruelty, if domesticated animals had zero human contact for 6 months.
Hoss, I hope you have the good sense to not be calling me a liar?!!!! Neither is my friend. If you'd like, I'd love to meet you in person and you can call me or him either one a liar to my face. . You'd end up missing the same amount of teeth either way. He put these cows in the first week of January. When they c;alved ion February, we caught them and worked the calves. He turned the black bulls in with them in May and got them in June, when he put the Corriente bull in. He was there Sunday and I dunno if they moved him Monday or not. The corral is right beside the entrance gate, and this is where the salt and minerals are. Very easy to fill these occasionally without seeing a cow. Same thing with pulling a trailer insiode the gate and letting the bulls out. The only time he MIGHT have seen these cows since February, would have been the day in June when he rounded up his black bulls, Chance are, if he went in the middle of the day, they were in the pond anyhow, which is in the same flat area inside the gate as the corral is. Spring fed pond and a creek that never goes dry. At least they haven't since we met in college in 1975, and I started hunting with him most every year. Insect/fly load/lameness/disease/pinkeye are non-issues with these cows. As I said, we quail and rabbit hunt this property, and from October til January, someone is hunting most every Saturday. Any fences needing repair is found and taken care of then. So, MAYBE he saw some of these cows the day in June when he turned out the Corriente and picked up the Ultra Black bulls. But no, they never had a rope or a hand layed on them from, the calf-working in February til the sorting this past Sunday. No one gives a red rat's ass what YOU consider animal cruelty, as it is obvious you don't know a damned thing about cattle.
 

Stocker Steve

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We have a livestock hauler here who buys longhorn cows and breeds them Char. Some scrub calves, but most look good.

Same idea - - cheap maternal cow that you can quickly cull if feed gets short.
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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Is it true that Corriente meat doesn't marble but still tender?
I wouldn't know, Shaz. Don't know that I ever heard of anyone feeding out Corrientes for beef. Roped out steers, and cows and bulls too old to breed are most likely ground up, like dairy cow culls are, into hamburger. Apparently, though, the Angus or Brangus x Corriente steers marble enough to gain CAB status.
 

simme

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and Sunday was literally the first time he had been there since February.

Hoss, I hope you have the good sense to not be calling me a liar?!!!! Neither is my friend. If you'd like, I'd love to meet you in person and you can call me or him either one a liar to my face. . You'd end up missing the same amount of teeth either way. He put these cows in the first week of January. When they c;alved ion February, we caught them and worked the calves. He turned the black bulls in with them in May and got them in June, when he put the Corriente bull in. He was there Sunday and I dunno if they moved him Monday or not. The corral is right beside the entrance gate, and this is where the salt and minerals are. Very easy to fill these occasionally without seeing a cow. Same thing with pulling a trailer insiode the gate and letting the bulls out. The only time he MIGHT have seen these cows since February, would have been the day in June when he rounded up his black bulls, Chance are, if he went in the middle of the day, they were in the pond anyhow, which is in the same flat area inside the gate as the corral is. Spring fed pond and a creek that never goes dry. At least they haven't since we met in college in 1975, and I started hunting with him most every year. Insect/fly load/lameness/disease/pinkeye are non-issues with these cows. As I said, we quail and rabbit hunt this property, and from October til January, someone is hunting most every Saturday. Any fences needing repair is found and taken care of then. So, MAYBE he saw some of these cows the day in June when he turned out the Corriente and picked up the Ultra Black bulls. But no, they never had a rope or a hand layed on them from, the calf-working in February til the sorting this past Sunday. No one gives a red rat's ass what YOU consider animal cruelty, as it is obvious you don't know a damned thing about cattle.
I must admit that I am confused. If he was there in May and June, he must have been there since February. Hope I can keep all my teeth. They cost me a lot of money.
 

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There are thousands of cattle around here who don't see a human for 6 months. When you turn out 500 cows on 10,000+ acres of broken ground don't count on seeing them regularly. Sure you might see a few when putting out salt or checking water. Just last week I rode my quad up to a spring to check if the water is still running. An hour each way on a two track road. I saw two pairs somewhere in the middle. There was about 8 pairs at the spring. A long way short of the 500 pairs that are up there. The majority of the cows turned out in April wont be seen until they come down out of the hills in November. That is repeated very often over large portions of the west.

There is a man near here who runs a lot of longhorn and longhorn cross cows and breeds them with Charolias bulls. The problem is not in raising a good looking 600 pound calf. The problem is how they preform in the feedlot. Feedlot owners keep real good records. Sell them under preforming calves and it wont take long until your market dries up.
 

puzzled in oregon

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Dunno why anyone would do it this way, other than Corrientes make excellent heifer bulls. The point is to use these cheap, virtually maintenance free cows, and breed them to homozygous for black ,Angus or Brangus bulls. The calves are black, polled, and look like most any other purebred or cross bred Angus or Brangus calf. They are the same size as an Angus x beef cow calf.
Just something I tried, didn't realize the color pattern would be so dominate. One of my cows I currently have is 1/2 Corriente. 1/4 Angus and 1/4 Hereford. She has calved from Black Angus, Red Angus and Murray Grey. The closest she has ever come to a solid colored calf is one black baldy heifer I kept, who has never had a spotted calf.

I don't have a doubt in my mind that cattle in correct numbers can do well in old logged of ground, and they don't have to be Corriente. They will most likely have a wide variety of browsing and an abundance of grass for at least the first few years. Any amount of browse they would have would seem like improved pasture compared to the the country/environment the Corriente
were imported from.

My comments weren't meant to offend you in any manner. I thought you were just sharing information on what has worked well for one individual. I didn't realize I was at risk for losing my front teeth.
 

Dave

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This is a picture I posted here before. A Corriente cow that was a roping heifer who when out grew roping was worthless so the neighbor kicked her out with the cows. Her calf is the one walking away from her. A few of them in the mix will go unnoticed. A few hundred and the feedlot operators will remember you and pay accordingly.
 

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