We have a new record

Help Support CattleToday:

TCRanch

TCRanch

CT Supporter
Cattle Today Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
8,787
Reaction score
9,247
Location
Winfield, KS
Can't remember the last time I had to pull a calf. But I've also never had first calf heifer with a 105 lb. calf - and the calf is a heifer. Yowza! Spunky pelvic measured at 168, so she should (theoretically) easily have an 80-85 lb. calf unassisted. And Tallywacker is the sire; average calves from him are 70-75 lbs. What could go wrong? Well, her lineage grows 'em big. She just surpassed her dam & grand-dam as a first time mama.

Relatively easy pull with just the straps (which I prefer over chains) and my brute strength (and lemme tell you, I'm feeling it today!). Heifer was super easy - no chute or halter, she just let me help her unrestrained in the barn. All good, right? Yeah, not initially. She couldn't get up for 2 hours and I tried everything except a hot shot because I didn't want her to associate calving with that kind of pain. Just as I pulled the cap off a syringe with Dex, she got up and immediately mothered-up to her calf. All good!!!

Moral of the story: don't rely solely on a bull's EPD's!!

Sparky in action:
1679955620867.jpeg
Spunky & Sparky
1679955657447.jpeg
That's one big baby girl!
1679955708752.jpeg
 
You did well TC. In the heifers defence I think if left like in waking up in the morning and finding a live/dead calf +/- calving paralysis she would have got it out herself if it was only a hand pull (not doubting your strength TC). I would have done exactly what you did except gone straight to my calf puller, I know what it feels like the next day. It's better out than in.
Be carefull working on them unrestrained, I have heard of people caught up in calving chains being dragged and killed.

Ken
 
wbvs58 said:
You did well TC. In the heifers defence I think if left like in waking up in the morning and finding a live/dead calf +/- calving paralysis she would have got it out herself if it was only a hand pull (not doubting your strength TC). I would have done exactly what you did except gone straight to my calf puller, I know what it feels like the next day. It's better out than in.
Be carefull working on them unrestrained, I have heard of people caught up in calving chains being dragged and killed.

Ken
Click to expand...
I hate having to use a calf ratchet if I can take my time and work with her contractions. When it was almost 2 hours and she hadn't made significant progress, it was time to step in - even though the sac hadn't broken. Pulling took all of 20 minutes, start to finish. And lots of moral support from @SBMF 2015!

I agree that it could have been dangerous. But I know my cattle and which ones I can comfortably work on in an unconventional manner. And a way out if things get ugly!
 
Side note: this first calf heifers grand-dam is the 40 lb. preemie/subsequent orphan in my lap in my avatar pic, couldn't even walk for 10 days. Tator Tot (Tator) has turned out to be one of my absolute best producers and I've kept all her heifers. Her 8th calf this year was a bull, but last year she spit out a 100 lb. heifer. Love this lineage!!
1679965790787.jpeg
And Tator's calf last year:
1679965916388.jpeg
 
I still remember the first one I really pulled. It was HOT. June or July. Bought bred heifer. Not a terrible large calf. What I call normal sized. Poor Texas was plumb exhausted!

I got to her and had my trusty ratchet strap. Made a loop in the end and wrapped around the feet. Started pulling. Of coarse she got up and walked thru the pond with me in tow!
I could've just as easily let go. She stopped in the middle somewhere and gave a push. Got the head out that time. Then off we went again!

She finally decided to lay down again and we got her finished up. Not a hard pull. Just hotter n hades outside.

Shes done well ever since....

Successful pulling sure makes ya feel good!
We've all pulled a dead one I'm sure.


Edited to add...
I know how ya feel about a 105lb calf. I got the story on the 105lb hereford heifer I just acquired. It was a hard pull on an old mama. Mama died 3 days later.
105lbs at 3 days old.
Not normal sized for me!

Edited again...
Ya gonna keep Sparky??
 
Last edited:
Great job! I'm with @wbvs58 in that I go straight for the puller too,
I've used quite a few CE Angus bulls and generally speaking I'd rather trust them than anything else when it comes to calving out heifers. I have noticed just limited to my experiences with them, that every now and then with certain cows that calves will trend towards larger size. I don't know if something genetic clicks together from both or if the cow in those instances is prone to have larger calves regardless.
I'm not a big fan of EPD's. I generally think that the BW and CED is the most credible area of EPD's but it's still fairly subjective, a lot of factors can come into play.
You definitely have some good cattle.
 
Ky hills said:
I have noticed just limited to my experiences with them, that every now and then with certain cows that calves will trend towards larger size. I don't know if something genetic clicks together from both or if the cow in those instances is prone to have larger calves regardless.
Click to expand...
I've noticed that in certain lineages. Remember my Oops Baby? Heifer was bred way too early, didn't take to the Lute, vet called her open - except she wasn't. Hard pull and a 95 lb. calf but she's turned out to be a great producer. Same lineage, she is Tator's niece.
 
Ky hills said:
Great job! I'm with @wbvs58 in that I go straight for the puller too,
I've used quite a few CE Angus bulls and generally speaking I'd rather trust them than anything else when it comes to calving out heifers. I have noticed just limited to my experiences with them, that every now and then with certain cows that calves will trend towards larger size. I don't know if something genetic clicks together from both or if the cow in those instances is prone to have larger calves regardless.
I'm not a big fan of EPD's. I generally think that the BW and CED is the most credible area of EPD's but it's still fairly subjective, a lot of factors can come into play.
You definitely have some good cattle.
Click to expand...
I had a registered simmental that was a heck of a cow for her first 3-4 calves, then threw a whopper. Dead but unassisted, it was nearly as long as the tailgate. Gave her another chance, very large calf the next year but survived. Year after that, a hard pull with another dead monster. Different bulls every time. Culled out after that. Don't know what happened, surely had to be genetic.
 
BFE said:
Year after that, a hard pull with another dead monster. Different bulls every time. Don't know what happened, surely had to be genetic.
Click to expand...
Exactly genetic. Half of the genetics involved is from the cow. But also late stage feed. Too much high quality feed in the last couple of months gets a calf to grow too large inside the womb. We want our cows to have the energy to calve... but sometimes that good feed is counter productive.
 
@TCRanch @BFE there must be something genetic in those cows that either clicks with the bulls genetics just right or maybe wrong is the better word, or maybe the cow genetics override the bull's genetics, it's over my head for sure.
I've heard some people say that went it comes to BW some bulls tend to trend more towards the cow, don't know that but seemed logical with some of the bulls I've used. I've used quite a few CE descendants of New Design 036.
Not a personal experience but have heard that even Final Answer could sire a monster calf out of certain cows.
We used a grandson of 036 for several years both in my herd, and a commercial bred heifer program. He probably bred over 100 head with no real issues, I think I had 1 pull from a cow because of a breech birth. Never heard any negative feedback on any bred heifers sold, until somebody had a monster calf that had to be pulled. They lost the calf, probably didn't get to in time, but it happens. I was very surprised at the time as that had not been our experience with the bull. The calving date was kind of blurred because it could have been a few days late AI calf by Image Maker or an early calf by my bull. My bull got the credit though, and we didn't use him for the program anymore. Not too long after that I had a registered heifer to have a 100 pounder out him, but she had it unassisted and it was up and going pretty fast.
The most recent bull we've been using for heifers, 65 pounds would be a big calf him, A lot of them are not much over 50, even a cow had a small calf by him, we looked around for a while for twin.
Even he has thrown a big calf once close to 90 from a heifer, I believe we did pull it but not a hard pull, or I'd remember that.
 
Travlr said:
Exactly genetic. Half of the genetics involved is from the cow. But also late stage feed. Too much high quality feed in the last couple of months gets a calf to grow too large inside the womb. We want our cows to have the energy to calve... but sometimes that good feed is counter productive.
Click to expand...
My cows only get enough feed to get to liking it. It's mostly a tool for catching them, unless there's a special case where they get down or have twins or the like.
 
TCRanch said:
Can't remember the last time I had to pull a calf. But I've also never had first calf heifer with a 105 lb. calf - and the calf is a heifer. Yowza! Spunky pelvic measured at 168, so she should (theoretically) easily have an 80-85 lb. calf unassisted. And Tallywacker is the sire; average calves from him are 70-75 lbs. What could go wrong? Well, her lineage grows 'em big. She just surpassed her dam & grand-dam as a first time mama.

Relatively easy pull with just the straps (which I prefer over chains) and my brute strength (and lemme tell you, I'm feeling it today!). Heifer was super easy - no chute or halter, she just let me help her unrestrained in the barn. All good, right? Yeah, not initially. She couldn't get up for 2 hours and I tried everything except a hot shot because I didn't want her to associate calving with that kind of pain. Just as I pulled the cap off a syringe with Dex, she got up and immediately mothered-up to her calf. All good!!!

Moral of the story: don't rely solely on a bull's EPD's!!

Sparky in action:
View attachment 28199
Spunky & Sparky
View attachment 28200
That's one big baby girl!
View attachment 28201
Click to expand...
That's great take a break
 
Genetics plays a lot in calf size but you must also consider nutrition of the mother. The latter into spring and summer the better the grass , so you would expect bigger calves . That's why you don't pour the feed to them during the last trimester.
 
The COW has more to do with the weight of the calf than the sire. Her genetics. Her environment. Her appetite. The COWS BW is more important than the bulls. Yes, the bull is 50% of the genetics, but the cow trumps that with environment.
I have a friend that lives about 1 hour away. PB Simmental herd. Almost a mirror image of my herd. He's purchased a lot of my genetics. We use almost the same bulls year after year. He cannot believe how heavy my birthweights are compared to his.
But, he has a huge barn that his cows get to lounge in all winter long. No environmental stress. He is still putting up first cutting. Mine has been done for a month. Mine is a LOT higher protein. So, between less stress of the COLD and lower protein, his calves are always smaller.
Severe cold grows fetuses. Protein grows fetuses. Hard combo. My heifers generally have 80-95# calves unassisted. Some, not many, have had over 100# calves. Like most producers, I watch my heifers closely at calving time, but it is very rare that we assist - except malpresentations.
 

Similar threads

T
Time to shop for a new bull
Replies
0
Views
295
Texas G@l
T
tater74
New born
2
Replies
27
Views
1K
tater74
tater74
Chuckie
Twins? Learned Something New
Replies
14
Views
614
Named'em Tamed'em
Named'em Tamed'em
J
Have not seen before
Replies
6
Views
407
coachg
coachg
G
A few arriving.
Replies
2
Views
244
gcreekrch
G

Latest posts

Top