Im interested in hearing the forums thoughts on using waste water treatment facility sludge as a cheap alternative to fertilizer. Its effects on fertility, milk production, longevity, etc in beef cattle. All comments are appreciated.
Wastewater Sludge as Fertilizer
- Thread starter bbyou
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bbyou":2o3nstvk said:
The city wastewater treatment plant here uses sludge on hay ground. They fertilize around 2000 acres of "Superfund" site property.
I personally wouldn't put it down and graze cows immediately behind it.
By the way, there are lots of heavy metals and salts in the sludge and their productions are starting to dwindle. The salts will soon leach out, but they're worried about the metals.
One treatment plant around here uses calcium carbonate to purify the lake water. The by product is given free to the people for their pastures.
It seems only a few ever get it. I can't get any. I got some thoughts about the one guy that controls the flow.
It seems only a few ever get it. I can't get any. I got some thoughts about the one guy that controls the flow.
We lease some hay land that the county has put sludge on for a number of years. Landowner has recently gotten them to stop putting it on the field. Gives a nice initial growth spurt but the quality of forage and yields over time have dwindled. There will never be a drop spread on any ground that I own.
novatech
Well-known member
To me it is just another natural resource that should be utilized. It puts trace elements back into the soil.
I do know of one place that uses it every year on 1500 acres. Some organization tests his soil every year. He adjoins a river and there has been concern about runoff by passers by that evidently complain.( One side of the property is along a major hi-way where thousands can watch them spread the sludge.) There is obviously no problem because they are allowed to continue.
I think most of the problem is in people's heads. With all the environmental people running around making waves any problems would have been halted some time ago.
To me there should be a much larger concern about the huge amount of commercial fertilizer used in peoples yards that eventually washes into the gutters and into the estuaries in the ocean.
I do know of one place that uses it every year on 1500 acres. Some organization tests his soil every year. He adjoins a river and there has been concern about runoff by passers by that evidently complain.( One side of the property is along a major hi-way where thousands can watch them spread the sludge.) There is obviously no problem because they are allowed to continue.
I think most of the problem is in people's heads. With all the environmental people running around making waves any problems would have been halted some time ago.
To me there should be a much larger concern about the huge amount of commercial fertilizer used in peoples yards that eventually washes into the gutters and into the estuaries in the ocean.
As was mentioned when this same subject came up a month or so ago, it's the possibility of heavy metals and other crap (no pun intended) that would be of a concern. I'm curious what happens to all of the medications, etc. that get flushed down the crapper.
In years past in some countrys "night soil" was a standard fertilizing agent. But that was before the proliferation of drugs, antibiotics, birth control medications, etc.
In years past in some countrys "night soil" was a standard fertilizing agent. But that was before the proliferation of drugs, antibiotics, birth control medications, etc.
This has been a hot topic in my area for several years. Some counties try and ban the use of sludge but in Va. the state has control. The state had used the state health dept. as a go or no go for years as to where the sludge is spread. It's been turned over to the DEQ now. Counties have no say so here. But they scream enough to halt the spreading in some areas.I've never used the stuff but I try and keep up with what's going on with it.
There's different types of waste and water treatment. Water treatment is mainly the treatment for fresh water. From what I've read the byproduct is mainly lime. It's used as lime and works great. As with everything there's a negative. With this the product is very hard on what ever is used to spread it. It's very heavy and abrasive to metal such as augers and flights to expellers and spinners.
Wastewater treatment can contain human waste, if it's controlled proper I think it can be used safely. But very few towns have that type of control. Textile mills used a waste water treatment from bleaching operations and the byproduct was just what the doctor ordered for grass. Either of those you had to contend with harsh odors. The textile waste was loaded with phosphate and starches.
There are several sites across the country that pelletize waste from human sludge and boast claims that it's controlled so that none to little of the heavy metals ever get in that product from the controls in place. Some is being used in Va. and mainly sold to home owners for lawns. I think there's a plant in the Hampton Roads area. The end product is dried and bagged and put on the shelf for sale. If used on hay fields the pellets are large enough that the hay rakes may pull the pellets into the wind row and then into the hay bale. The pellets are very hard and take a good deal of time to dissolve. I'm talking more than a year.
I've been watching an area not to far to the east of me near Chase City. The liquid sludge with human waste has been used there for about 10 years now. There's talk of animal health problems in that area now. They will be getting an ethanol plant soon that will use barley. I expect to see the sludge usage go up for that crop since it'll be used for fuel.
I've been temped to sign up for sludge usage but always back off because of liability. If that stuff gets in the ground water and ruins the neighbors wells or some one gets sick from it's usage I, my family and future family won't have enough money to pay that bill.And I also enjoy my neighbors as well.
Folks get excited when they see a pile or mound of anything on a farm. The first year I used wood ash one of my neighbors went by the local country store and blabbed that I had human waste piled up to spread on the grass. After I started seeing cars and trucks go by slowing down looking at the pile I flagged down a couple that I knew and talked. I invited them to the pile so they could see/smell/touch what was there and ended that uproar. Miss information can get you in a heap of trouble with neighbors fast. I will be spreading ash for one of those neighbors this year.
A good friend and I got chicken litter brought in this year for the first time in this area. I haven't heard any complaints of that so far. So what ever you do remember you have neighbors and if you like them and want to keep them as friends you may want to let them in on what you're about to do. I should have done that with the ash. But I had no idea anyone would think that was sludge.
I know just like everyone here what fertilizer prices are doing and going to do to us. I decided 5 years ago we'd have to change our ways if we keep farming. So far we've spread tobacco, wood ash, chicken litter and cow manure. We are always looking for a free or cheap product to get plant food and organic matter. No telling how many hours I've spent on the phone asking questions and gathering facts on waste products. So far it's worked well but does require work. It's not as easy as calling and getting a fertilizer truck in your field the next morning. It also cost $$$$ in equipment that was a chance to take. So far that's looking better now. We have folks wanting us to spread some of the same byproducts we use now. This year with our own usage and spreading for other folks we'll be busy most of the year. If they keep calling we may have to turn some down. So look around you and see what's being taken to the landfills. All of it isn't toxic. But be careful and know what you're going to spread is safe and to keep good neighbors you may have to back off every once in a while.
I use annual soil samples and rely on them to keep everything under control. When you switch to organics the reaction is different than chemical. So more isn't always better and with some, time is required to see the final results. I'm still learning too.
There's different types of waste and water treatment. Water treatment is mainly the treatment for fresh water. From what I've read the byproduct is mainly lime. It's used as lime and works great. As with everything there's a negative. With this the product is very hard on what ever is used to spread it. It's very heavy and abrasive to metal such as augers and flights to expellers and spinners.
Wastewater treatment can contain human waste, if it's controlled proper I think it can be used safely. But very few towns have that type of control. Textile mills used a waste water treatment from bleaching operations and the byproduct was just what the doctor ordered for grass. Either of those you had to contend with harsh odors. The textile waste was loaded with phosphate and starches.
There are several sites across the country that pelletize waste from human sludge and boast claims that it's controlled so that none to little of the heavy metals ever get in that product from the controls in place. Some is being used in Va. and mainly sold to home owners for lawns. I think there's a plant in the Hampton Roads area. The end product is dried and bagged and put on the shelf for sale. If used on hay fields the pellets are large enough that the hay rakes may pull the pellets into the wind row and then into the hay bale. The pellets are very hard and take a good deal of time to dissolve. I'm talking more than a year.
I've been watching an area not to far to the east of me near Chase City. The liquid sludge with human waste has been used there for about 10 years now. There's talk of animal health problems in that area now. They will be getting an ethanol plant soon that will use barley. I expect to see the sludge usage go up for that crop since it'll be used for fuel.
I've been temped to sign up for sludge usage but always back off because of liability. If that stuff gets in the ground water and ruins the neighbors wells or some one gets sick from it's usage I, my family and future family won't have enough money to pay that bill.And I also enjoy my neighbors as well.
Folks get excited when they see a pile or mound of anything on a farm. The first year I used wood ash one of my neighbors went by the local country store and blabbed that I had human waste piled up to spread on the grass. After I started seeing cars and trucks go by slowing down looking at the pile I flagged down a couple that I knew and talked. I invited them to the pile so they could see/smell/touch what was there and ended that uproar. Miss information can get you in a heap of trouble with neighbors fast. I will be spreading ash for one of those neighbors this year.
A good friend and I got chicken litter brought in this year for the first time in this area. I haven't heard any complaints of that so far. So what ever you do remember you have neighbors and if you like them and want to keep them as friends you may want to let them in on what you're about to do. I should have done that with the ash. But I had no idea anyone would think that was sludge.
I know just like everyone here what fertilizer prices are doing and going to do to us. I decided 5 years ago we'd have to change our ways if we keep farming. So far we've spread tobacco, wood ash, chicken litter and cow manure. We are always looking for a free or cheap product to get plant food and organic matter. No telling how many hours I've spent on the phone asking questions and gathering facts on waste products. So far it's worked well but does require work. It's not as easy as calling and getting a fertilizer truck in your field the next morning. It also cost $$$$ in equipment that was a chance to take. So far that's looking better now. We have folks wanting us to spread some of the same byproducts we use now. This year with our own usage and spreading for other folks we'll be busy most of the year. If they keep calling we may have to turn some down. So look around you and see what's being taken to the landfills. All of it isn't toxic. But be careful and know what you're going to spread is safe and to keep good neighbors you may have to back off every once in a while.
I use annual soil samples and rely on them to keep everything under control. When you switch to organics the reaction is different than chemical. So more isn't always better and with some, time is required to see the final results. I'm still learning too.
One of the local fertilizer mongers is also selling pelletized chicken manure. That's the claim anyway. I haven;t been able to find out if it's the straight product or litter. The analysis is supposedly 5-5-5. He's selling a lot of the stuff. I'll just wait a couple of years and see how that whole deal shakes out.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
dun":29k99hke said:
A lot of heavy metals in chicken litter as well. I use it but no more than once a year. I think it is zinc that can build up in your soil too quickly is you are not careful.
pdfangus
Well-known member
Also in Virginia.
We had part of our pastures spread for the first time this past fall.
Several of the neighbors have utilized it in the past and all reports were positive.
We used it just to try to cut the fertilizer bill.
Depending on the process used to treat the product some has a good bit of lime in it as well. Our pH was very good so we did not get the lime stabilized stuff.
We had no pile as they spread it as fast as it was delivered. Every days delivery was on the fields at the end of the day. They haul at night and are in the fields a bit before sunrise and they were gone when I got home at 5:00 pm every day.
I have to review plans for it for our county so I pretty much know where it is going.
cows have to be kept off the spread ground for at least thirty days after application. I don't think it makes a big difference as it is still visible since we have not had enough rain to take it into the ground.
Lots of crop farmers in the area use the pelleted stuff because you can get it for 10 bucks a ton. The pelleted stuff is termed class A and it can be bought bagged in commercial outlets but that way it is not cheap.
If we ever get any substantial rain perhaps I can evaluate later in the year. If no rain then there won;t be much to evaluate.
We had part of our pastures spread for the first time this past fall.
Several of the neighbors have utilized it in the past and all reports were positive.
We used it just to try to cut the fertilizer bill.
Depending on the process used to treat the product some has a good bit of lime in it as well. Our pH was very good so we did not get the lime stabilized stuff.
We had no pile as they spread it as fast as it was delivered. Every days delivery was on the fields at the end of the day. They haul at night and are in the fields a bit before sunrise and they were gone when I got home at 5:00 pm every day.
I have to review plans for it for our county so I pretty much know where it is going.
cows have to be kept off the spread ground for at least thirty days after application. I don't think it makes a big difference as it is still visible since we have not had enough rain to take it into the ground.
Lots of crop farmers in the area use the pelleted stuff because you can get it for 10 bucks a ton. The pelleted stuff is termed class A and it can be bought bagged in commercial outlets but that way it is not cheap.
If we ever get any substantial rain perhaps I can evaluate later in the year. If no rain then there won;t be much to evaluate.
Bobg
Well-known member
Just make sure that they test for heavy metals before putting it on. I know in the Bozeman MT area they have been injecting it into the soil for quite a few years. I didn't hear any complaints about it when I lived there, they did test each lagoon for heavy metals before applying it.
Bobg
Bobg
novatech":174boe6v said:
I respectfully disagree. The plot we have been working with rotates a different section into sludge usage each year with a plot recieving a minimum 2 year break between applications. A nutrient management plan has been used on this field for quite some time. I don't have a recent soil test in front of me but the metals are thru the roof. The quality and quantity of forage from this field has declined greatly. (Fescue/Orchard grass) Attempts at reseeding and improvement have been futile to say the least. Right now we've killed the whole field and planted it in wheat, interested to see how that turns out.
dyates
Well-known member
This thread is cracking me up. It seems very ironic that we send our manure to a treatment plant to keep it out of the environment, then pelletize it and sell it to someone else to fertilize their yard. I think I'll just go out and crap in the yard and cut out the middle man.
novatech
Well-known member
I don't understand. If this is a management program, soil tests would or should have been done on a yearly basis. If they were, how did the heavy metal get out of control. If you want to see some that has not declined in the last 10 years with applications every year I can certainly make arrangements for you to see. I am not doubting you but cannot understand why yours would be different than the one I am speaking of, unless it is the treatment process.cfpinz":1q9dvoe5 said:
pdfangus
Well-known member
Just like everything else in life .....
In biosolids there are shysters and quick buck con artists and there are reputable long term outfits.
Here in this part of the world the shysters have pretty much been identifed and shunned.
I just came back from a morning class on biosoilds plan writing and the attitude of the handling companies now is one of doing it right and protecting their permits.
In biosolids there are shysters and quick buck con artists and there are reputable long term outfits.
Here in this part of the world the shysters have pretty much been identifed and shunned.
I just came back from a morning class on biosoilds plan writing and the attitude of the handling companies now is one of doing it right and protecting their permits.
The mayor of our city has recently given me the Biosolids Analysis for our cities sludge. From looking at the analysis, the Lead and Arsenic (both heavy metals) levels are within the labs allowable range. My concern is liver damage caused from increased heavy metal ingestion and reduced herd fertility. I have the potential to save approx $40,000 in fertilizer expense, but fear my calf crop and cow herd health will decrease, thus costing me way more than the $40,000 saved. I will take the lick and use conventional fertilizers once again. Thanks for all your info.
MrBilly
Well-known member
I suggest you do a search on this site, because many of us have given our thoughts on the subject in the not too distant past. Acceptable ranges in soil tests? Acceptable for who? Acceptable today, but not tomorrow? Frankly, I wouldn't trust my local government to help me make such an important decision. They need to get rid of the stuff. There are a vast number of substances in crap and toilet water that they do not, and cannot, determine by any test. I will gladly spend the money on fertilizer, knowing what I am getting and that I am not possibly poisoning the ground. Once the ground is contaminated, it becomes worthless financially and to say the least for farming. I bet there are some Superfund farms.
Billy
Billy
rdbigfarmboy
Well-known member
Sludge is devided into classes. The cleaner sludge is not restricted as to where you can put it. The sludge with heavy metals in very tiny amounts like 2 parts per million for some constituents has to go to landfills or be further processed. Its important to understand someone has already made the decision as to how clean of toxics the sludge must be. The regs dont require testing for everything. Most of the stuff mentioned in previous post is organic and has a very short half life. Stuff like silvex (245T) or pcbs or many other pesticides has a very long life in the tissue or the soil. Most drugs, pills, sharps, and diseases are simply destroyed by the chemicals and physical processing. Sunlight time and heat also break down organics.
The process depends on the honesty of generator of the sludge, the treatment plant personnel obeying the regulations, the analytical laboratory being honest, and correct proper ethical decisions being made. Tons of regulations can be circumvented by a bad player wanting to save a buck.
Personally I would use class A clean sludge if it were available.
The process depends on the honesty of generator of the sludge, the treatment plant personnel obeying the regulations, the analytical laboratory being honest, and correct proper ethical decisions being made. Tons of regulations can be circumvented by a bad player wanting to save a buck.
Personally I would use class A clean sludge if it were available.
novatech
Well-known member
The way I am reading some of these posts is that some of the sludge produced is coming from privately owned plants. Around here the plants are all operated by the cities. I have herd no complaints of heavy metals. The amount one is allowed to use per acre is well regulated. There are some ranches that have been using sludge for many years with no ill effects. Just the opposite is true, the grass just keeps getting better year after year.
