Wasn't someone on here from the south, looking for some Herefords?

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CCCowman

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breed that 62.5% back to a 100% red Hereford bull gives you: 100+62.5=162.5/2= 81.25%.

We use red hereford bulls a lot. Gives a hetro black calf but you have that structure.
 

CCCowman

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Warren, there is the best connection you could have. A respected owner of the bull. I'm betting he can make arrangements to hold him a few days and my lot is open if he can't.
You would bet right, Mr. Thomas.

Warren: you buy him, let me know what you need.
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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breed that 62.5% back to a 100% red Hereford bull gives you: 100+62.5=162.5/2= 81.25%.

We use red hereford bulls a lot. Gives a hetro black calf but you have that structure.
Ok, that makes sense. So a reg. BH x a reg BH will always be 62.5% red. So, your bull...the one we are looking at.. is a product of BH x red Hereford? How is it that he is homozygous for black, in that case?
 

FarmerShell

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They are pretty to look at in my opinion. I'd guess they are like any other animal if you buy from a legit breeder. You know your getting what your paying for. If your buying from a sale barn, surprises may be expected. You get what you get and you don't throw a fix. 🤷🏽‍♀️
Look at dog breeders for instance... "pitbull breeders" everybody, their cousins, and mama's thinks they know how to breed legit pitbulls. You can easily look at a pitbull and tell rather quickly if it's a good dog. If it doesn't come with certified pedigree papers or looks good may not be the best-selling "pit bull". Than again my brother had a $50 pitbull he bought off a corner in town. He was a great dog. He looked good, was well temper, good with children, good with cats, not good with other dogs.... most delivery men was scared 💩 less of him. 😆 He never understood what was wrong with them.
 

RockinRB

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Black herefords aren't a 5/8 - 3/8 composite. So they can have varying percentages of red hereford genetics. I don't know what range they need to be in to be considered a black hereford though.
Ok, that makes sense. So a reg. BH x a reg BH will always be 62.5% red. So, your bull...the one we are looking at.. is a product of BH x red Hereford? How is it that he is homozygous for black, in that case?
 

CCCowman

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Ok, that makes sense. So a reg. BH x a reg BH will always be 62.5% red. So, your bull...the one we are looking at.. is a product of BH x red Hereford? How is it that he is homozygous for black, in that case?
See Rockin'RB's post. To be a registered Black Hereford it must be 62.5% and higher.

An initial angus x red hereford cross is regarded in the ABHA as an F1 (50% angus 50% RH). You cannot officially register a F1 with the ABHA. You get a "Pedigree of Record" instead. We won't get into that here.... lots of discussions on this in the ABHA world.

To breed up your %: use a red hereford bull on a homo black F1. (50+100)/2=75% BH. Black calf.

FYI: Lot 6 BBF 9129 By 8622 "Elvis" is actually 75.25% BH. The catalog has him listed as 79.25%. That is a typo by the fat fingered Son of a gun that complied the catalog (me....). We have that updated on the sale supplement sheet. I have a picture on my phone of him all cleaned up and ready to go but I cant figure out how to get it from there to here.

To your question.....
His sire is JN Balder 8622 (84.4% BH). Homo Black and Hetro Polled
His dam is JRK 731 Langston Lacy 268 (66% BH). Her Homo Black and polled status is not listed in the database we use. Assume she was homo black: 100% chance calf would be homo black. Assume hetro black: 50% chance of being homo black.
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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Black herefords aren't a 5/8 - 3/8 composite. So they can have varying percentages of red hereford genetics. I don't know what range they need to be in to be considered a black hereford though.
According to the association rules, they are 5/8ths Hereford and 3/9 8ths Black Angus. A black baldy would not be a black hereford. But, according to the rules, you can cross a BH ( 5/8ths Her- 3/8ths Angus) to a red Hereford and register the calf as long as it is black. And cross that one with a red Hereford, etc, as long as the resulting calves are black.

Percentage Bloodlines. All bulls, females and steers for which application for registration is made shall be classified as 62.5% or greater registered Hereford, be black in color, and must be sired by a bull registered in the ABHA.

C. Purebred Bloodlines. Bulls and cows shall be classified as a purebred Black Hereford if they are 87.5% hereford and black in color
 
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Warren Allison

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No difference in what these people are doing, than the people who are turning Limosine, Gelbeiv, Simmental, etc,. into mostly Angus . These ABHA people, are just turning red Herefords into black Herefords.
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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To your question.....
His sire is JN Balder 8622 (84.4% BH). Homo Black and Hetro Polled
His dam is JRK 731 Langston Lacy 268 (66% BH). Her Homo Black and polled status is not listed in the database we use. Assume she was homo black: 100% chance calf would be homo black. Assume hetro black: 50% chance of being homo black.
So, we don't know if Elvis is homo black and homo polled or not? Or has he been DNA tested and the results were homo for both?
 

CCCowman

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Well &^@#%!!!! Finally got logged on and they were selling lot 7!! Did you let Elvis go for $1100?
Yep...... I had 4 BH bulls in the sale and a big commercial angus. (5) 2 year olds. Something had to go. I didn't put a price on any of them. What they brought was what they brought.
I was working the back and didnt hear what the price was. But the kid that bought him was 17 and starting his own herd. Saved up all summer. This was his first bull. I'd probably given it to him if he'd asked. I told him he got a $2500 bull for half price!
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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Yep...... I had 4 BH bulls in the sale and a big commercial angus. (5) 2 year olds. Something had to go. I didn't put a price on any of them. What they brought was what they brought.
I was working the back and didn't hear what the price was. But the kid that bought him was 17 and starting his own herd. Saved up all summer. This was his first bull. I'd probably given it to him if he'd asked. I told him he got a $2500 bull for half price!
Well, I don't feel quite as bad about missing him, then. Good to know there are still a few kids interested in farming and ranching. We weren't able to get any Brahma cows or heifers at the Texas sale yesterday, either.
 

CCCowman

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Well, I don't feel quite as bad about missing him, then. Good to know there are still a few kids interested in farming and ranching. We weren't able to get any Brahma cows or heifers at the Texas sale yesterday, either.
Sale went pretty good for our first time up in this area. 61 total lots sold. Total sales were $108,670. Sold to a lot of commercial guys. That surprised me. We'll do it again next year for sure.
 
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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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Sale went pretty good for our first time up in this area. 61 total lots sold. Total sales were $108,670. Sold to a lot of commercial guys. That surprised me. We'll do it again next year for sure.
It doesn't surprise me, Todd. The commercial buyers want them for the reason stated on the national association's website....that the mission is to create a Hereford that will always produce black baldies. People with commercial angus cows and bulls, always stand the chance that their cattle may be heterazygous for black, and stand the risk of having red baldy calves. Using homo BHs will eliminate that. Plus, the BHs tend to have better feet, eyes and udders than the red Herefords. . If y'all ever get to the point that you can close the books, and all of the BHs are homo black and homo polled, then you gonna see prices really take off. I also think F1 black polled BH x Brahmas will very soon be in higher demand than red or tiger striped F1 Brafords. If II had the time, money, and was 30 years younger, I would get some homo black and polled BH cows, and a homo black and polled BH bull or 2, and start breeding them to Brahmas myself.
 

CCCowman

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It doesn't surprise me, Todd. The commercial buyers want them for the reason stated on the national association's website....that the mission is to create a Hereford that will always produce black baldies. People with commercial angus cows and bulls, always stand the chance that their cattle may be heterazygous for black, and stand the risk of having red baldy calves. Using homo BHs will eliminate that. Plus, the BHs tend to have better feet, eyes and udders than the red Herefords. . If y'all ever get to the point that you can close the books, and all of the BHs are homo black and homo polled, then you gonna see prices really take off. I also think F1 black polled BH x Brahmas will very soon be in higher demand than red or tiger striped F1 Brafords. If II had the time, money, and was 30 years younger, I would get some homo black and polled BH cows, and a homo black and polled BH bull or 2, and start breeding them to Brahmas myself.
I picked this fellar up. He should add some growth to my calves. HOMO Black and Polled. I like him.
 

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Warren Allison

Warren Allison

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I picked this fellar up. He should add some growth to my calves. HOMO Black and Polled. I like him.
You gonna collect him and AI, or just pasture breed? If it gets too cold for him up there this winter, ,send down to me to spend a couple months with a dozen reg Brahma heifers in south Georgia! :)
 

CCCowman

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You gonna collect him and AI, or just pasture breed? If it gets too cold for him up there this winter, ,send down to me to spend a couple months with a dozen reg Brahma heifers in south Georgia! :)
I'm going to AI heavy this year using reds to get some structure in my herd. Hoping for a bunch of heifers. May get a couple reds out of my hetro black girls but I'll take the chance. I'll use ol "Digger" on a few and as cleanup. He's only 1 1/2.
 

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