Was this self defense?

[Buck Randall]

I must have missed the part of the video where the shooter's life or property were endangered.

 

[callmefence]

And th

I must have missed the part of the video where the shooter's life or property were endangered.

It's right between I'll kill you and grabbing the gun. That's all the help your getting scooter.

 

[Ouachita]

This is simply visitation. It doesn't work that way.
Even if the father had called the police they would have only documented the violation and it would have went back before to the judge before penalty for contempt of court was handed out.

This is the way it works in Arkansas.

I had full/primary custody of my then 5yo son. When I went to pick him up at his mothers house, she and her new husband wouldn't let me. I went home and my custody papers, called the sheriff to meet me at her house. He couldn't do anything except documenting that she refused to comply with the custody agreement and visitation schedule. Sheriff did give her one opportunity before he suggested I go home and this will have to go back to court.

Bottom line is, I was asked to leave the property. Sheriff suggested that was best, because if I did not, I was trespassing.
If the parties involved in this tragic Texas incident have had this problem before, and called the law, then I can understand why neither of them bothered to call this time.

It is very frustrating, to the point of pure unadulterated rage, when you have the papers to prove it's "your turn" with your son, and can't do anything about (except leave and wait for another court date).

 

[callmefence]

Daddy looked pretty threatening to me.
Plenty stupid to. Shoulda stuck to that first threat. He was on the right track.
This guy will not do time.

 

[Buck Randall]

And th

It's right between I'll kill you and grabbing the gun. That's all the help your getting scooter.

He didn't grab it before the first shot was fired. And he was a full step away when the fatal shot was fired. This was a senseless unprovoked murder.

 

[Ouachita]

Unprovoked?

 

[Son of Butch]

The fact he was there to pick up his kid has nothing to do with him not leaving when told to do so.

LOL - LOL - LOL
Texans - sheesh

 

[Son of Butch]

The difference is private property.
The man was told"get of my property" before a gun was introduced. Why do you insist on leaving out facts?

The fact is the father was invited to come on the property to get his son.

The mother knew refusing to comply with the court order after the father arrived would enrage him and her husband would kill him and she'd have full custody.
But she expected her ex to follow her husband into the house and kill him inside.
Allowing them to claim self-defense and custody uncontested.

 

[Buck Randall]

Unprovoked?

I'll admit I went a little far with that one. Unjustifiable would be more accurate.

No reason to get the gun involved other than a small man wanting to play king of the castle. No different than a Chihuahua yapping in the yard.

 

[Bigfoot]

He didn't grab it before the first shot was fired. And he was a full step away when the fatal shot was fired. This was a senseless unprovoked murder.

That first shot is what complicates it for me.

 

[Lucky]

Tell me how y'all look at this situation…..We are the last house on our gravel road before it Ys into two dirt/mud roads. Our closet neighbor is about 1/3 of a mile before you get to our house and I work allot of 7-7 night shifts. Last year about 10:30 pm my wife called me at work scared. She said two young men knocked on the door (we are 1,000' off the road) and ask to use the bathroom. She said no and shut and locked the door. The two young guys didn't leave but kept knocking asking to use the bathroom for several more minutes then finally walked off. While they were knocking she was alone, scared, had a gun, and told them to leave several more times. They were on our property being told to leave but wouldn't, would she have been justified in shooting them through the door? I'm 99% sure in this county it would have been an open and shut case of self defense, they would have took a statement and dropped the case the next morning. Would her shooting them have been self defense?

 

[Silver]

This is simply visitation. It doesn't work that way.
Even if the father had called the police they would have only documented the violation and it would have went back before to the judge before penalty for contempt of court was handed out.

Regardless, if he hadn't broken the first rule everyone would still be alive.

 

[Little Joe]

This would be a hard call either way but I'm leaning more in favor of it being murder due to the fact that the step dad had the opportunity to call law enforcement when he went in the house and he and the mom could've just stayed in the house until they arrived, if then the father tried to come in he would've had every right to shoot him. Or if the father tried to prevent either of them from just going in the house, he would've had the right to shoot him. Shooting someone would be a last resort for me, that's something that would be hard to live with.

 

[callmefence]

The fact is the father was invited to come on the property to get his son.

The mother knew refusing to comply with the court order after the father arrived would enrage him and her husband would kill him and she'd have full custody.
But she expected her ex to follow her husband into the house and kill him inside.
Allowing them to claim self-defense and custody uncontested.

You've got quite the imagination. Lol, lol lol

 

[callmefence]

This would be a hard call either way but I'm leaning more in favor of it being murder due to the fact that the step dad had the opportunity to call law enforcement when he went in the house and he and the mom could've just stayed in the house until they arrived, if then the father tried to come in he would've had every right to shoot him. Or if the father tried to prevent either of them from just going in the house, he would've had the right to shoot him. Shooting someone would be a last resort for me, that's something that would be hard to live with.

So you'd go in the house and hunker down and leave your wife outside with a bellering idiot. I know buck and butch would.....I wouldn't.

 

[Buck Randall]

So you'd go in the house and hunker down and leave your wife outside with a bellering idiot. I know buck and butch would.....I wouldn't.

If my wife were acting like that I'd be inside the house calling a divorce lawyer.

 

[greybeard]

I'll be a little surprised if it gets true billed by a grand jury and won't be too much surprised if it doesn't even go TO a grand jury.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Tell me how y'all look at this situation…..We are the last house on our gravel road before it Ys into two dirt/mud roads. Our closet neighbor is about 1/3 of a mile before you get to our house and I work allot of 7-7 night shifts. Last year about 10:30 pm my wife called me at work scared. She said two young men knocked on the door (we are 1,000' off the road) and ask to use the bathroom. She said no and shut and locked the door. The two young guys didn't leave but kept knocking asking to use the bathroom for several more minutes then finally walked off. While they were knocking she was alone, scared, had a gun, and told them to leave several more times. They were on our property being told to leave but wouldn't, would she have been justified in shooting them through the door? I'm 99% sure in this county it would have been an open and shut case of self defense, they would have took a statement and dropped the case the next morning. Would her shooting them have been self defense?

Tough call. Had they forced the door open and then been shot no doubt it would have been self defense. Had she fired through a locked door….well who knows? I'm glad they left.

 

[callmefence]

If my wife were acting like that I'd be inside the house calling a divorce lawyer.

If my wife were acting like that I'd be inside the house calling a divorce lawyer.

Maybe the dead guy was the problem.
Looks like he'd ran through a few wife's.
And done a little time in the pen......

 

[Little Joe]

So you'd go in the house and hunker down and leave your wife outside with a bellering idiot. I know buck and butch would.....I wouldn't.

You didn't read my entire post, I said the step dad and mom BOTH could've went in the house. Nothing was stopping either one from going in the house, now the moment dad tried to stop either one from entering the house that again would be self defense. And are you telling me that if someone was trying to prevent you from seeing your own kid that you wouldn't act like an idiot over it? I would, I think that would bring out the worse in anyone. I agree that the dad should've left when told to regardless but I still don't think it justified bringing out a gun at that point. It's not like he was just some random stranger that had no right to be there and wouldn't leave, he was there to get his kid that was being withheld from him.