Vet students.

[Dave]

Spayed heifers, 300 in six hours??? For $5 a pop?

We had some spayed heifers once and I was impressed with their weight gains, but we were partnered with a vet that did it as part of the agreement so I never knew how long it took or what it cost.

I was pushing heifers into the chute. There was a guy pushing them out of the pens and into the crowd alley. A total of 5 people around the chute doing various things (Washing the heifer, shots, ear tag, implants, etc) The vet and his assistant. It was a slam bam work in progress. I know I was 69 or 70 at the time. 5 hours of back and forth on my feet the whole time wore me out.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

I was hunting elk at a huge ranch near Dillon Mt years ago and they preg checked 550 cows before lunch. I hung around to help because I couldn't believe it. My job was running the "keep them" gate. Hydraulic squeeze chute, spit and shyt flying everywhere. 4 or 5 people on horseback keeping the alley full, Stephanie had a vaccine gun in both hands and was very busy. It was an amazing process.

 

[wbvs58]

If I knew 55 years ago what I know now a career as a Veterinarian is not what I would have chosen.
What you expect of a Vet and what you want to pay just is not going to happen now and into the future unless government steps in with some generous subsidies.

Ken

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

As I said there's money to be made in fixing pets. I know plenty of people who struggle to put food on their table but somehow will spend thousands when their dog gets hit by a car, or cat gets an infection. They will resort to eating beans and rice so that fiddo lives another day. Don't have to leave the office and those kinds of things come thru your door, no mud/snow/manure/etc.

If the vet said for 4k bucks they can try to fix up Ole Bess the commercial cow I'm going to say no thanks and send her off.

 

[Travlr]

If I knew 55 years ago what I know now a career as a Veterinarian is not what I would have chosen.
What you expect of a Vet and what you want to pay just is not going to happen now and into the future unless government steps in with some generous subsidies.

Ken

I respect vets as much as any profession in the world... but I think pretty much everyone doing business today has developed this idea that their efforts are worth more, and they deserve more, than people did fifty years ago.
This is perhaps an extreme example, but I asked a guy over to bid trimming some limbs from an old apple tree. He pulls up in a shiny eighty thousand dollar plus pickup and approaches like he's doing me a favor allowing me to bask in his magnificence. Ultra-confident and socially cool, he suggests the tree be taken down completely. I tell him I like the tree, so we'll just keep it... but what about the limbs? He doesn't miss a beat. No doubt in his mind that the old dude will swallow and he'll be making a payment on something new he's financing to make his ego swell. All for the low, low price of two hundred dollars a limb... three limbs... six hundred bucks total.

And he gets upset and thinks he can verbally b**ch slap me into compliance when I snicker and say no. Insulted, he starts itemizing how all of his equipment is expensive and he can't work for peanuts.

But times have changed, right?

I remember when a guy would pull up in a well used truck with ladders and tools and if it took less than an hour he'd do it on the spot with a pole saw. And I'd pay his asking price gladly and tip him $50. And then we'd shoot the bull for a few minutes and we'd part friends for life. And he'd go home and kiss his wife and hug his kids and eat meatloaf and pay his bills by helping people and feel good about doing an honest days work.

And it seems like the new thing happens more and more. Kids living in McMansions and expecting the boomers to pony up merely because they want. And I can't help wondering if these young guys are seeing me as an easy mark because my hair is now white. Or is it me, and I have lost my social skills and become "set in my ways", including expectations? Or is it just that the public is so enamored of bling that they think the people driving expensive trucks are more skilled or somehow better to hire? Or again, is it me and I place too much value on the dollars I own so fleetingly?

I blame it on the schools that give the required education and charge big money for diplomas. They are being run like hospitals, to maximize profits and not afraid to create massive student debt. The colleges compete for reputation, top professors, and winning football teams and all of that costs big money, and they pass those costs on to the kids taking their courses and hoping to find jobs that will pay for their education. It's kind of a circle jerk, each thing feeding on the other.

 

[mwj]

Sounds like you need to start a new business and make some cash.

 

[Dave]

I remember my Dad after he had been retired for 10 years or so complaining about how much money people made or spent. But people do make a lot more today than they did just a few years ago. Just a few years ago my son was working as a union iron worker in Seattle. They were working him a lot including weekends. If he worked on a Sunday he made $800 for that day. Good old Dad who retired in '84 (+/-) never made $800 in a week.
Son gave up that iron worker job 4 or 5 years ago because he was away from home and the kids too much.

 

[kenny thomas]

Do they want a scenic drive over to Bulls Gap?

They will im pretty sure. She lives in Blaine. I will send you her number.

 

[CowboyRam]

I respect vets as much as any profession in the world... but I think pretty much everyone doing business today has developed this idea that their efforts are worth more, and they deserve more, than people did fifty years ago.
This is perhaps an extreme example, but I asked a guy over to bid trimming some limbs from an old apple tree. He pulls up in a shiny eighty thousand dollar plus pickup and approaches like he's doing me a favor allowing me to bask in his magnificence. Ultra-confident and socially cool, he suggests the tree be taken down completely. I tell him I like the tree, so we'll just keep it... but what about the limbs? He doesn't miss a beat. No doubt in his mind that the old dude will swallow and he'll be making a payment on something new he's financing to make his ego swell. All for the low, low price of two hundred dollars a limb... three limbs... six hundred bucks total.

And he gets upset and thinks he can verbally b**ch slap me into compliance when I snicker and say no. Insulted, he starts itemizing how all of his equipment is expensive and he can't work for peanuts.

But times have changed, right?

I remember when a guy would pull up in a well used truck with ladders and tools and if it took less than an hour he'd do it on the spot with a pole saw. And I'd pay his asking price gladly and tip him $50. And then we'd shoot the bull for a few minutes and we'd part friends for life. And he'd go home and kiss his wife and hug his kids and eat meatloaf and pay his bills by helping people and feel good about doing an honest days work.

And it seems like the new thing happens more and more. Kids living in McMansions and expecting the boomers to pony up merely because they want. And I can't help wondering if these young guys are seeing me as an easy mark because my hair is now white. Or is it me, and I have lost my social skills and become "set in my ways", including expectations? Or is it just that the public is so enamored of bling that they think the people driving expensive trucks are more skilled or somehow better to hire? Or again, is it me and I place too much value on the dollars I own so fleetingly?

I blame it on the schools that give the required education and charge big money for diplomas. They are being run like hospitals, to maximize profits and not afraid to create massive student debt. The colleges compete for reputation, top professors, and winning football teams and all of that costs big money, and they pass those costs on to the kids taking their courses and hoping to find jobs that will pay for their education. It's kind of a circle jerk, each thing feeding on the other.

That can happen. I have also taken a bid to a potential customer and to the reply, oh that is a little high, xyz company said they could do it for x dollars. I always said it looks like they got the job. But they really wanted me to do for the other contractors price. I'm not going to peddle bids.

When my grandfather was building he had another contractor going around and doing the work just under what grandpa bid it for. One day grandpa low balled a bid, the other guy did the work and was mad at grandpa because he lost money on the job. Grandpa fixed his wagon.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

When I started college, I had the idea that I wanted to go to vet school. Then I had a class with a veteran who had been an army medic. She told me that a lot Army docs want to be veterinarians but they couldn't get into vet school. Needless to say that I didn't want to wind up in the swamp with Hawkeye and Trapper John.

Temple Grandin made the point that a lot people aren't reaching their potential because schools have focused on academics rather than having a technical education. She said that there are vet students who don't know how to use scissors. For me, English tripped me up.

Most of what a veterinarian does with cows is practical in nature and doesn't need several years of prerequisites to understand.

 

[kenny thomas]

Temple Grandin is a good speaker. Lots of good information.

 

[bird dog]

I used one of the last remaining large animal vets in our area before he passed. I would always over pay my bill a few bucks because I didn't think he charged enough. I told him he was too cheap one day when I ask what I owed. He said "don't worry about it son, I make it up on those damn dogs".

I took him a big bottle of his favorite scotch that year for Christmas.

 

[sstterry]

They will im pretty sure. She lives in Blaine. I will send you her number.

I assume she was closer to you. Then she is in my area!

 

[wbvs58]

I respect vets as much as any profession in the world... but I think pretty much everyone doing business today has developed this idea that their efforts are worth more, and they deserve more, than people did fifty years ago.
This is perhaps an extreme example, but I asked a guy over to bid trimming some limbs from an old apple tree. He pulls up in a shiny eighty thousand dollar plus pickup and approaches like he's doing me a favor allowing me to bask in his magnificence. Ultra-confident and socially cool, he suggests the tree be taken down completely. I tell him I like the tree, so we'll just keep it... but what about the limbs? He doesn't miss a beat. No doubt in his mind that the old dude will swallow and he'll be making a payment on something new he's financing to make his ego swell. All for the low, low price of two hundred dollars a limb... three limbs... six hundred bucks total.

And he gets upset and thinks he can verbally b**ch slap me into compliance when I snicker and say no. Insulted, he starts itemizing how all of his equipment is expensive and he can't work for peanuts.

But times have changed, right?

I remember when a guy would pull up in a well used truck with ladders and tools and if it took less than an hour he'd do it on the spot with a pole saw. And I'd pay his asking price gladly and tip him $50. And then we'd shoot the bull for a few minutes and we'd part friends for life. And he'd go home and kiss his wife and hug his kids and eat meatloaf and pay his bills by helping people and feel good about doing an honest days work.

And it seems like the new thing happens more and more. Kids living in McMansions and expecting the boomers to pony up merely because they want. And I can't help wondering if these young guys are seeing me as an easy mark because my hair is now white. Or is it me, and I have lost my social skills and become "set in my ways", including expectations? Or is it just that the public is so enamored of bling that they think the people driving expensive trucks are more skilled or somehow better to hire? Or again, is it me and I place too much value on the dollars I own so fleetingly?

I blame it on the schools that give the required education and charge big money for diplomas. They are being run like hospitals, to maximize profits and not afraid to create massive student debt. The colleges compete for reputation, top professors, and winning football teams and all of that costs big money, and they pass those costs on to the kids taking their courses and hoping to find jobs that will pay for their education. It's kind of a circle jerk, each thing feeding on the other.

Over here the licence to practice is governed by the Veterinary Surgeons Board and they also discipline Vets. It is a board made up of Veterinary Surgeons from practice and academics as well as representatives from government and also members of the public. In my time they have brought in stricter regulations every year of the premises you can work from, the equiptment you are required to have, all adding to the expense. I believe things got worse when they introduced members of the public to the board who are trying to justify their appointment. I started out working from a garden shed, we lived on rural acreage outside of a major city. I speyed bitches and other surgery there just using barbiturate anesthetics and used a pressure cooker to sterilise the instruments. We did a good job and didn't kill anything. We had a low socio economic area close by (housing commission) and used to see a lot of Distemper every Feb/March until Parvo virus came on the scene and used to take out all the young dogs in Oct/Nov. We couldn't do much for these dogs other than euthanase and encourage vaccination. We tried to help within these peoples means. We got caught for money a lot. I'd cast a fx ulna radius without taking an xray to try and keep the cost down and most were successfull. Today the only treatment offered would be plating the radius after many xrays. Heartworm was another we saw a lot of and had good success treating with the arsenical Caparsolate.
Now I would be crucified if gave an anaesthetic without all the O2 gear and resussitation equiptment. With all the new requirements along came all the equiptment salesmen peddling their gear like trying to sell the latest blood testing machine and showing how you pay for it by insisting that every animal has a blood test before an operation, with yearly check ups. They will even train your nurses in how to make people feel guilty not opting for blood tests. I'm 73 and had a few anaesthetics of late and am yet to have had blood tests before, just a few questions.
The final nail in the coffin has been pet insurance, they are pushing it big time and milking it like crazy which is pushing the price of things through the roof and their services. Vets are now masters of marketing.
Just finally an example of clients ability to pay always comes to my mind from where I was working last, both were really great people, the first was a very nice lady that had 4 children and her husband's income was all they had in a very basic job but they managed and tried to do the best for their kids pets and I helped as best I could. They other clients were a young couple, no kids, one was a solicitor, the other an accountant in very good jobs. They wanted to everything possible for their kids and could afford to. I probably enjoyed looking after the pets of the lady with the kids the best, I always felt I made a difference.
Practices I see today I think it is a game of dressups, they are all running around in their pyjamas trying to look the part. My neighbour got a reminder for a 6 month checkup for his 13 yr old dachshund the other day and went along and got relieved of $250.
I'm not rereading this just pressing the reply button, if it doesn't make sense then too bad.

Ken

 

[kenny thomas]

I assume she was closer to you. Then she is in my area!

Well, either way she has to be at the college to get the students and the van with the vet supplies.

 

[Travlr]

Over here the licence to practice is governed by the Veterinary Surgeons Board and they also discipline Vets. It is a board made up of Veterinary Surgeons from practice and academics as well as representatives from government and also members of the public. In my time they have brought in stricter regulations every year of the premises you can work from, the equiptment you are required to have, all adding to the expense. I believe things got worse when they introduced members of the public to the board who are trying to justify their appointment. I started out working from a garden shed, we lived on rural acreage outside of a major city. I speyed bitches and other surgery there just using barbiturate anesthetics and used a pressure cooker to sterilise the instruments. We did a good job and didn't kill anything. We had a low socio economic area close by (housing commission) and used to see a lot of Distemper every Feb/March until Parvo virus came on the scene and used to take out all the young dogs in Oct/Nov. We couldn't do much for these dogs other than euthanase and encourage vaccination. We tried to help within these peoples means. We got caught for money a lot. I'd cast a fx ulna radius without taking an xray to try and keep the cost down and most were successfull. Today the only treatment offered would be plating the radius after many xrays. Heartworm was another we saw a lot of and had good success treating with the arsenical Caparsolate.
Now I would be crucified if gave an anaesthetic without all the O2 gear and resussitation equiptment. With all the new requirements along came all the equiptment salesmen peddling their gear like trying to sell the latest blood testing machine and showing how you pay for it by insisting that every animal has a blood test before an operation, with yearly check ups. They will even train your nurses in how to make people feel guilty not opting for blood tests. I'm 73 and had a few anaesthetics of late and am yet to have had blood tests before, just a few questions.
The final nail in the coffin has been pet insurance, they are pushing it big time and milking it like crazy which is pushing the price of things through the roof and their services. Vets are now masters of marketing.
Just finally an example of clients ability to pay always comes to my mind from where I was working last, both were really great people, the first was a very nice lady that had 4 children and her husband's income was all they had in a very basic job but they managed and tried to do the best for their kids pets and I helped as best I could. They other clients were a young couple, no kids, one was a solicitor, the other an accountant in very good jobs. They wanted to everything possible for their kids and could afford to. I probably enjoyed looking after the pets of the lady with the kids the best, I always felt I made a difference.
Practices I see today I think it is a game of dressups, they are all running around in their pyjamas trying to look the part. My neighbour got a reminder for a 6 month checkup for his 13 yr old dachshund the other day and went along and got relieved of $250.
I'm not rereading this just pressing the reply button, if it doesn't make sense then too bad.

Ken

I'm with on that pet insurance being the nail in the coffin. It's gotten ridiculous. And the guilt trips...

 

[Little Joe]

I respect vets as much as any profession in the world... but I think pretty much everyone doing business today has developed this idea that their efforts are worth more, and they deserve more, than people did fifty years ago.
This is perhaps an extreme example, but I asked a guy over to bid trimming some limbs from an old apple tree. He pulls up in a shiny eighty thousand dollar plus pickup and approaches like he's doing me a favor allowing me to bask in his magnificence. Ultra-confident and socially cool, he suggests the tree be taken down completely. I tell him I like the tree, so we'll just keep it... but what about the limbs? He doesn't miss a beat. No doubt in his mind that the old dude will swallow and he'll be making a payment on something new he's financing to make his ego swell. All for the low, low price of two hundred dollars a limb... three limbs... six hundred bucks total.

And he gets upset and thinks he can verbally b**ch slap me into compliance when I snicker and say no. Insulted, he starts itemizing how all of his equipment is expensive and he can't work for peanuts.

But times have changed, right?

I remember when a guy would pull up in a well used truck with ladders and tools and if it took less than an hour he'd do it on the spot with a pole saw. And I'd pay his asking price gladly and tip him $50. And then we'd shoot the bull for a few minutes and we'd part friends for life. And he'd go home and kiss his wife and hug his kids and eat meatloaf and pay his bills by helping people and feel good about doing an honest days work.

And it seems like the new thing happens more and more. Kids living in McMansions and expecting the boomers to pony up merely because they want. And I can't help wondering if these young guys are seeing me as an easy mark because my hair is now white. Or is it me, and I have lost my social skills and become "set in my ways", including expectations? Or is it just that the public is so enamored of bling that they think the people driving expensive trucks are more skilled or somehow better to hire? Or again, is it me and I place too much value on the dollars I own so fleetingly?

I blame it on the schools that give the required education and charge big money for diplomas. They are being run like hospitals, to maximize profits and not afraid to create massive student debt. The colleges compete for reputation, top professors, and winning football teams and all of that costs big money, and they pass those costs on to the kids taking their courses and hoping to find jobs that will pay for their education. It's kind of a circle jerk, each thing feeding on the other.

I had to have a rental property repainted on the inside the other day after the tenant of 10 years moved out. I called a guy I've used a few times at the school I work at, he quoted $5000. 1700 sq ft house, I had already paid to have the walls cleaned and we were going back with the same color and part of the house has wood wainscoting at the bottom that didn't need painting.I thought he was joking but he let me know he was not. I found another guy to do it, $1800, took him 3 days, 1 day just him and 2 he and his helper. He still made good money at $1800, the other guy was trying to get rich off of that job. I believe in people charging what their time is worth but even if it had taken 5 days for 2 guys, that's about $62/hr per man if I had paid the $5000.

 

[Travlr]

I had to have a rental property repainted on the inside the other day after the tenant of 10 years moved out. I called a guy I've used a few times at the school I work at, he quoted $5000. 1700 sq ft house, I had already paid to have the walls cleaned and we were going back with the same color and part of the house has wood wainscoting at the bottom that didn't need painting.I thought he was joking but he let me know he was not. I found another guy to do it, $1800, took him 3 days, 1 day just him and 2 he and his helper. He still made good money at $1800, the other guy was trying to get rich off of that job. I believe in people charging what their time is worth but even if it had taken 5 days for 2 guys, that's about $62/hr per man if I had paid the $5000.

For that kind of money ($5000) I could drive from three states away, stay in motels, and do the job and make money. That's crazy expensive, and the only thing I can think of is that some people must be paying it or these guys wouldn't be asking that much to do a job.

 

[Lucky]

Cow vets work too cheap and most small animal vets are too high.

Almost everyone we get bids from to do anything from metal fab work to carpentry or paint is $60 an hour and up for one man and a helper. They don't get in a hurry either. We were quoted $3,200 to paint a 20x20 bedroom and a 8x10 bathroom last fall. The bedroom didn't get the ceiling painted just the walls. The guy was 3 months out so guess he can charge whatever he wants and stay busy. They both still need painted if anyone needs a side gig

Had a couple young guys out building a cattle load out last week. They charged $60 an hr for 2 people and used my shop, welders, and tools. They did a good job but needed constant supervision and couldn't read the simple plans I'd drawn out or refer to the dozen pics I sent them. I ended up with $5,500 in the deal half being material and half labor. I felt like for that price I should have been hands off on the project but it wasn't the case. The one I priced like it was $10,000 and 1,200 miles away. Guess I came out ok and hopefully those boys learned a few tricks from me.

 

[SBMF 2015]

Cow vets work too cheap and most small animal vets are too high.

Almost everyone we get bids from to do anything from metal fab work to carpentry or paint is $60 an hour and up for one man and a helper. They don't get in a hurry either. We were quoted $3,200 to paint a 20x20 bedroom and a 8x10 bathroom last fall. The bedroom didn't get the ceiling painted just the walls. The guy was 3 months out so guess he can charge whatever he wants and stay busy. They both still need painted if anyone needs a side gig

Had a couple young guys out building a cattle load out last week. They charged $60 an hr for 2 people and used my shop, welders, and tools. They did a good job but needed constant supervision and couldn't read the simple plans I'd drawn out or refer to the dozen pics I sent them. I ended up with $5,500 in the deal half being material and half labor. I felt like for that price I should have been hands off on the project but it wasn't the case. The one I priced like it was $10,000 and 1,200 miles away. Guess I came out ok and hopefully those boys learned a few tricks from me.

The vet I worked for was $80/hr twenty years ago. I have no idea what they charge now.