vaccination / ai protocol

[angus9259]

Ran a small group of cattle through my GnRH/CIDR/Estrumate protocol - none showed heat. This particular time I gave their annual ML vaccinations on day 0 of the protocol with the GnRH. Afterwards I read you should not do that - but it didn't say why. Wondering if that screwed up the efficacy of the protocol. Anyone know?

 

[novaman]

I've been told you never do vaccinating around the breeding window. The explanation I got was when the cow is reacting to the vaccine her cycling gets thrown off and she won't have a fertile cycle. I believe a ML vaccine causes more of a problem than a killed because the cows is fighting the "organism" and her (I'm trying to remember right) body temp goes up a little. This increased temp is what is the killer. Maybe somebody else could correct me if I am wrong. I'd also add that there are many on these boards that have had poor luck with CIDR's.

 

[deenranch]

I used some CIDR's last week... Put CIDR in on friday, gave shot of lut on following friday, pulled CIDR on saturday and got all but one heat on monday morning.... I use this proto every time and it has worked great...

 

[Farmgirl]

I had a discussion with a Pfizer vet on this subject. I think they said it was best if MLV vaccinations were given a month before sync drugs but 2 weeks before might be ok.

Farmgirl

 

[fargus]

Speaking from personal experience, after giving a MLV we will see a large group of cows "shocked" into heat about 2 weeks following. They aren't all on the same day, but within 3-5 days of each other. I don't know the specifics of why, but it does seem to play with their natural heat cycle. For that reason we've always adhered to the label, and vaccinated at least 2 weeks prior to sync drugs and/or the start of our natural breeding season. We've never had any issues when doing so.

 

[angus9259]

Thanks for the thoughts. Wonder what the exact mechanism is. Clearly it's something though because these are the worst results I've seen. Be interesting to see if there are a number that still come into heat in the next couple weeks.

 

[AudieWyoming]

I agree vaccination really seems to play havoc with your AI conception. The CIDR's have been the best syncro, reproduction advance to date. I think if you can't get satisfactory results with one of those programs you need to look at other management areas! (nutrition, disease, thaw temp or something)

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I read that a MLV can make the repro track of a heifer swell, making conception poor. But, they were referring to cattle that had not been previously vaccinated - in other words the shot was not her "booster" - although they definately recommended at least 4 weeks prior to breeding on all MLV shots for all cattle.

 

[AudieWyoming]

One other thought on synch programs--- the first time I ran a CIDR/lutelyse program on about 10 late calving cows to try and move them up, 2 never showed any response but 2 or 3 days later both had blood on their tail. They had cycled, they just didn't know it. I always put something in them after 72 hours regardless.

 

[pdfangus]

AudieWyoming

What I use to do with those cows that did not show heat was resync them with just Ov sync and breed them on time. Might get you a little higher conception than the 72 hour rule as some of them may not have had a good fertile heat from the first sync but when resynced do pretty good when bred on time.

 

[AudieWyoming]

AudieWyoming

What I use to do with those cows that did not show heat was resync them with just Ov sync and breed them on time. Might get you a little higher conception than the 72 hour rule as some of them may not have had a good fertile heat from the first sync but when resynced do pretty good when bred on time.

Yes I agree it depends on the time frame you are working with, value of the pregnancy, or what you are trying to accomplish. Sometimes I will run a gnrh/CIDR/lutalyse program near the end of AI season just for problem cows, late calvers, twin mothers, and unbred 3 year olds. This gives them one chance for an AI calf before we turn the bull out. I find that even if they don't respond, or have an infertle heat, it will clean them up and most will bred on the next cycle.

 

[ColemanCreekCattle]

Yes, you screwed up the protocol----
Giving a ML vaccine has to be 30 days post calving/pre-breeding.Do not ever use a pour on wormer during breeding, but prior to breeding at the correct interval with a ML vaccine is ok

day 0 --- CIDR In + 2ml cystorelin (this will help any cystic cows and also help cows who had just been in heat a few days in advamce of CIDR's) Any cows that cycle 7 days prior to CIDR date should be bred on a natural heat.......
Day 7 --- CIDR out + 5-6 ml of Lutalyse
am/pm rule = (standing heat am = breed pm)(standing heat pm breed am) all those cows/ heifers that dont show heat breed anyway on hour 80.

Ran a small group of cattle through my GnRH/CIDR/Estrumate protocol - none showed heat. This particular time I gave their annual ML vaccinations on day 0 of the protocol with the GnRH. Afterwards I read you should not do that - but it didn't say why. Wondering if that screwed up the efficacy of the protocol. Anyone know?

 

[Double R Ranch]

In AI and ET school we were told to always do our vac. atleast one month prior and no closer to breeding. Multiple reasons. One of which it seems you are learning. Two you want to have protection prior to breeding. Three they say that by doing all the vac. etc. while trying to Sync you are stressing the cows out even more which inturn will mess with there cycle you are trying to sync.
Personally here we always do our vac. atleast 5 weeks ahead of when we are going to Sync. At which time we also clip the hair where our butt tags are going to be placed. In doing this, 4-5 weeks later when we Sync and heat detect the hair is the perfect length to hold the tags with no problems. Once we started doing this we haven't had a single problems with our heat detection tags.
Also when we bring the cattle in for Vac. etc. we get a good chance to see any health problems that will affect breeding as well as decide which bulls we will be breeding which cattle to. Give us a chance to update records and make sure all is well before AIing. I truly believe this has saved us money as well as open cattle after the first breeding. Our first time bred numbers went up dramatically as well as better calf crops because of selecting different bulls for groups of cattle instead of using one bull on everyone.
Hope that made sense. Its 4:30am and im waiting on a calf to be born from a cow that has had problems in the days leading up to now.
Double R