Using bulls out of heifers?

Help Support CattleToday:

tom4018

Dumb Old Farmer
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
4,139
Reaction score
199
Location
Kentucky
I know the genectics would be the same but to me first calf heifers seem to wean a smaller calf. Would you buy a bull out of a first calf heifer?
 
Sure. If he's raised properly by the time you would use him he'll be right up with the others, or so close that you wouldn;t know the difference
 
tom4018":134l0icd said:
I know the genectics would be the same but to me first calf heifers seem to wean a smaller calf. Would you buy a bull out of a first calf heifer?

Aboslutely. Sometimes, you can get a good "heifer bull" out of a heifer because you have more than likely bred that heifer for calving ease.
 
yes id buy an raise a bull calf out of a 1st calf heifer.the heifer always carries better genetics than her momma.so that means the bull has good genetics.
 
Usually we do not keep any bulls from heifers. You do not know how the heifer truly produces. We usually only keep a bull from a proven producer.
 
CosgrayHerefords":1enhz4kk said:
Usually we do not keep any bulls from heifers. You do not know how the heifer truly produces. We usually only keep a bull from a proven producer.

By weaning time I have a pretty good idea what the first calver is made of, I cull very strict so if a bullcalf out of a first calver is good and in par with the weaning weights of the rest of the herd, the heifer is back in calf and in good condition I don't see why you would routinely cull the calves based on that. I feel if I've done my job as a breeder the first calvers are the best genetics in the cow herd, it would only make sense to use that to your advantage.
 
KNERSIE":14gr0nwa said:
CosgrayHerefords":14gr0nwa said:
Usually we do not keep any bulls from heifers. You do not know how the heifer truly produces. We usually only keep a bull from a proven producer.

By weaning time I have a pretty good idea what the first calver is made of, I cull very strict so if a bullcalf out of a first calver is good and in par with the weaning weights of the rest of the herd, the heifer is back in calf and in good condition I don't see why you would routinely cull the calves based on that. I feel if I've done my job as a breeder the first calvers are the best genetics in the cow herd, it would only make sense to use that to your advantage.
Thanks for that Knersie. This has really been interesting to see the varied opinions. My heifer has put down TWO beautiful animals and raised them BOTH and working on next years produce. I would think her son's get will be better than he is.
 
I'm no expert on this since I don't have to worry about calving ease. But as a matter if logic it seems as though that is where one would aquire the best calving ease bulls.
 
novatech":2qjwn4yz said:
But as a matter if logic it seems as though that is where one would aquire the best calving ease bulls.

Why would that be?
 
dun":5030r9l0 said:
novatech":5030r9l0 said:
But as a matter if logic it seems as though that is where one would aquire the best calving ease bulls.

Why would that be?
Just doesn't seem like a lot of people would need calving ease bulls on older cows. Most of these bulls are selected for heifers I would think and not necessary for older cows. Like I said I am no expert and not accustomed to how others make their selections.
 
CosgrayHerefords":2gv1djfn said:
Usually we do not keep any bulls from heifers. You do not know how the heifer truly produces. We usually only keep a bull from a proven producer.

That is true if the heifer was purchased, but if the heifer was raised you have a better than average idea of how she is going to produce based on her mother's, grandmother's, and possibly great-grandmother's performance. If you are raising your heifers, you are losing out on some potentially good bull prospects by not keeping bull calves out of heifers.
 
This is true, might be the best thing you ever raise, just because it's out of a heifer is no reason to discount its potential. That goes for heifer calves out of heifers as well, they could be some of the best animals you produce, if your a breeder trying to improve every calf crop why not give them a chance as they are supposed to be even better than their mommas
 
bigbull338":8acze7qn said:
the heifer always carries better genetics than her momma.so that means the bull has good genetics.

that's the worst assumption and the worst logic i have ever read here.

you assume the breeder knows what they're doing and that the cow he is out of was good.
 
Aero":qf6ig0ac said:
bigbull338":qf6ig0ac said:
the heifer always carries better genetics than her momma.so that means the bull has good genetics.

that's the worst assumption and the worst logic i have ever read here.

you assume the breeder knows what they're doing and that the cow he is out of was good.

Hopefully you are breeding for your future herd by selecting optimum genetics, if this is the case (which it should be in all breeding programs) your young stock is always your future..But there is always the exception.
 
well i pitty you if thats the worst logic you ever heard.an heres why.if you know your cows bulls an heifers.then you must 1st know how to read your reg papers.as well as know your bloodlines an the breeders of those bloodlines.an you must have a good eye for cattle.an you must also cull your bull calves hard.i cull my herd very hard.an i know the bloodlines like i do the back of my hand.an i know what works an what doesnt.i had a lady come look at a bull thats for sale.an this 80yr old women knows cattle like i do.an she knows all about the bloodlines.well the bull had bloodlines to die for.an she wouldve bought the bull.but i said no the bull dont fitt your needs.because her cows are 1500lb beefmasters.her whole herd big framed cows.so i got on the ph an found her 2 bulls.trying to get those bulls sold to her because they fitt her needs.
 
attention to detail...

the original question was: would you buy a bull out of a first calf heifer.

this means it has nothing to do with what you would do with your own bloodlines. this is looking at someone else's bull (you dont know) and their first calf heifer (you dont know) and can only guess what their objectives are. more than likely their objective is to sell you a bull and they will use whatever popular blood they need to.

yes, it's obvious that your own calf should be an improvement over at least one of it's parents in your own opinion if you made the breeding decisions. if you are buying a bull, you have to know (not be familiar with, etc) both parents to know what you are getting.
 
if she knows cows like you do, why did she want to buy a bull that wouldnt work for her?
 
Bigbull doesn't have the worse logic as hillsdown pointed out. When you breed your cattle you always strive to get better genetics but I agree most closely with Aero. I think you guys are just comign from different sides of the cattle business. Being large scale commercial and breeding smaller herds of pure breeds are fairly different in how they operate in my opinion.

If your large scale you may be breeding cattle that make just a fine calf to be sold and fatten but their off spring may not be the best to keep for a bull to use to breed future stock. Also as someone else stated youve never seen a calf out of the heifer yet, she could be a poor producer. Thats my 2 cents. Of course like bigbull said if you do know the genetics you coul probably make a good decision off of that.
 

Latest posts

Top