USDA Hopes to Verify Cattle's Ages Through Physical Traits

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la4angus

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Looks Like Another Stall Tactc to me.

USDA Hopes to Verify Cattle's Ages Through Physical Traits

Omaha World-Herald, November 06, 2004


by Chris Clayton WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER


The U.S. Department of Agriculture is studying ways for cattle producers to prove an animal's age through physical traits rather than through source verification and traceable records.

Japan and Taiwan have agreed to accept U.S. beef from livestock younger than 21 months. The countries stopped importing U.S. beef last December after a case of mad cow disease was discovered in the United States. Having a verifiable system is key for re- establishing trade.

The USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service met with producers and meatpacking companies this week in Kansas City, Mo., to explain what to expect from trade talks between the United States and Japan.

"If the Japanese importers don't approve our standards or protocols, then it doesn't work," said Greg Ibach, assistant director of the Nebraska Agriculture Department.

After last December's discovery of mad cow disease, USDA officials announced that they would quickly implement a national animal identification program. The agency has since backed off that proposal.



With USDA approval, Nebraska has started its own voluntary identification plan that registers farms that own livestock. Ibach said about 100 producers have registered for the program.

Nebraska officials are not immediately moving toward a mandatory program, however.

"That's not something we're pushing for in Nebraska," Ibach said. "We will follow what USDA signals if they come to a time when they want to do something like that."

Rather than use certified identification records, the USDA is studying a group of cattle that researchers have documented since birth and is comparing physiology of the animals for key traits. The goal is to show that there are ways to properly verify an animal's age without definitive records.

"If USDA is successful in convincing the Japanese government of allowing us to use some measure of physiological maturity, then that changes the picture altogether," said Jeff Stolle, vice president of marketing for the Nebraska Cattlemen.

Stolle, who attended this week's meeting, said many unknown factors exist for producers and meatpackers regarding identification requirements.

"We're just beginning the phases of identifying what Japan will want for certification and proof," Stolle said.

Meatpackers interested in exporting to Japan would have to provide USDA with a quality management system that the agency would have to approve. Part of the plan would require explaining how the packer would verify age.

Producers want to know what they have to do to keep cattle eligible for export, but right now there are no firm answers, Stolle said.

"Those were the very same type of questions we were hoping to get some type of clarification on but weren't surprised that we didn't, because a lot of that still has yet to be worked out," Stolle said.

Last year, Japan imported $1.7 billion worth of U.S. beef, or about 10 percent of America's total production, according to the USDA.

Ibach said state officials intend to schedule a meeting with USDA officials in Washington, D.C., sometime in the next month to find out more about how to certify Nebraska livestock for export to Japan.

(C) 2004 Omaha World-Herald. via ProQuest Information and Learning Company; All Rights Reserved
 
The last I understood the Japaneese wanted 100% of our cattle kill to be tested for BSE and not just what would be shipped to them.
 
Chris Clayton WORLD-HERALD STAFF WRITER ":25x8eugz said:
The U.S. Department of Agriculture is studying ways for cattle producers to prove an animal's age through physical traits rather than through source verification and traceable records.

Oh yeah I saw how well that works when I had cows sell through the ring. I had 2 heiferettes go to town, but yet I had 5 sell. As close as I could figure out the other three were 4 and 5 years old. And I even wrote down the age of each cow that corrisponds with the tag.
 
I've brand inspected thousands of calves going out of this area for the last 3 or 4 years that were intended for the Japanese market-----They required signed affidavits showing country, state, and county of birth and grazing - along with feed additives and any shot and implant info-- They used this before-- Any stalling now is just a trade barrier......

I sold my calves two weeks ago with the same info-- tagged and with a signed affidavit....... The info and the cattle are available to establish trade if the Japanese want to and the packers want to cooperate..........

I understand tho that there is quite a backlash from the Japanese consumer- they want everything tested.... My feeling is then that we should give them tested beef as long as they pick up the cost difference....
 
Oldtimer,

Do you think the BQA type of set up will become a norm? Since they are doing the EID tags and ranch practice qualifications. I kind of think it will.
 
I would think that this topic would draw more interest than what has been generated so far.
 
cattle_gal":2zs3qm86 said:
Oldtimer,

Do you think the BQA type of set up will become a norm? Since they are doing the EID tags and ranch practice qualifications. I kind of think it will.

cattle_gal --- I think something along that line will come to be- especially with the push for a nationwide ID..... When Future Beef was operating they had requirements even to the breed make up-- I'm seeing more and more country buyers that are requiring shots (and each has their own brand name or type they want used) and affidavits...

I've been a believer for 40 years in keeping good records on the cattle- Just for my own use to see which are performing and which need to hit the road--- I think it is paying off now.........
 
la4angus":yfsh2jb1 said:
Looks Like Another Stall Tactc to me.

USDA Hopes to Verify Cattle's Ages Through Physical Traits

After last December's discovery of mad cow disease, USDA officials announced that they would quickly implement a national animal identification program. The agency has since backed off that proposal.

It would be interesting to know what the USDA's definition of quickly is.

Time for Ms. Venneman to look for another job, IMHO.
 
Hey there,

Well if I remember right from my meats course, and I do, the best way to determine age is to know the birth date, 2nd is to look at the teeth, (not always perfect but OK for cattle under 24 months), then 3rd you can look at the bones in the spine and determine level of calcification of the bones.

For older cattle, which should all be dead in a few years, there is no excuse for why cattle have not been Bangs vaccinated or tagged as having blood drawn for Bangs at least once, as an ID, the BANGS VAC TATTOO is the best we have to help us guess the age within 6 months if they don't get off the pot and put in to action the NID system, which I am for, even if you don't buy the software and reader, you have taken one step towards opening one of the most lucrative trade markets, even if it is not the top 3% prime, if the less afluent classes started to consume beef, we could not meet the demand with our total anual production in tons of beef produced
 
Michelle Pankonien":1bk2qtpk said:
Hey there,

the best way to determine age is to know the birth date, 2nd is to look at the teeth, (not always perfect but OK for cattle under 24 months), then 3rd you can look at the bones in the spine and determine level of calcification of the bones.

Bangs vaccinated or tagged as having blood drawn for Bangs at least once, as an ID, the BANGS VAC TATTOO is the best we have to help us guess the age within 6 months

Michelle, none of these ways to determine age will guarantee that the animals are not over 21 Mo. except for knowing the exact birth date,which the Japaneese and Taiwanese require.
An animal can be mouthed and show it to be under 21 mo, but it could also be 21 mo and 10 days. This is not under 21 mo.which they require.Not very accurate when looking for something positive.
The bones calcification will not positively show that an animal is not over 21 mo.
The bangs vaccination can be done from 4 mo up to a higher age. It differs in different states Again no guarantee. Even in the same herd the animals could have been vaccinated with a 3 mo. age difference and possibly more.
They say they want beef from cattle under 21 mo. and not a 6 mo. variation above the 21 mo. age.
If we are going to sell them beef we are going to have to meet their demands and not try to have a variance in our favor.

This is similar to many used car salesmen tactics.
 
I'm not aware of very many (any) people that Bangs vaccinate their steers.

dun
 
dun":3svyhzq8 said:
I'm not aware of very many (any) people that Bangs vaccinate their steers.

dun
Hfrs also are fed and slaughtered. Not only steers.
You should know that.
 
la4angus":27vph6td said:
Hfrs also are fed and slaughtered. Not only steers.
You should know that.

Correct, but a Bangs tag isn't going to work except in those cases. So that doesn't make it a viable solution either. Source verification is the only way that will be (more or less) foolproof.

dun
 
dun":iub8zupf said:
la4angus":iub8zupf said:
Hfrs also are fed and slaughtered. Not only steers.
You should know that.

Correct, but a Bangs tag isn't going to work except in those cases. So that doesn't make it a viable solution either. Source verification is the only way that will be (more or less) foolproof.
dun

Pretty much what I had posted isn't it.
Except it won't work un less the birth date is verified

The bangs vaccination can be done from 4 mo up to a higher age. It differs in different states Again no guarantee. Even in the same herd the animals could have been vaccinated with a 3 mo. age difference and possibly more.
 
On top of verified birthdates and source verification,no one seems to talk about the amount of clout the Japanese Farmers Union has in their country. Not much seems to happen without them being on board or at least without them being pacified in some way.
 
I thought we were talking about cow herds, last I checked you didn't run steers in the cow herd

And yes I am aware that there is a huge varience in aging cattle by mouth, hell I have a 14 year old cow that you would mouth and say she was 8, but when you look at her tatoo you can varify her age,

and with the new RB 51 Bangs vac it is 4-10 months of age on the vaccination, according to the lable, if you are doing it correctly

Yes having the exact DOB is the best but unfortunatly some people take DOB to mean "Date out of Brush" instead of "Date of Birth"

And for the folks running a few 100+ head on several thousand acres who use fall round up for pulling calves, vaccinating and weaning culling open and old cows, the actual date of birth may never be possible, for them, I say leave them in the US food chain, and researve the sale of high quality beef that has complete source, age varrifacation to the Pacific Rim folks, and we can easily meat those standards

The US dose not fit in the box in terms of one type of production, and the beef that is produced in house for the Pacific Rim people is way over 21 months of age and there is a whole lot of wasted trim produced on those fat beasts,

The US has the most diverse production scheme in the world, from growing cattle in high desrt plains, to high altitude mountain terain, to lush tropical climates, to coastal saltgrass lands. (Finishing in Feedlots) Only Australia has anything close to the divesity of production like we have, and they also have the same problems we have to deal with
 
Michelle Pankonien":35bacqea said:
Yes having the exact DOB is the best but unfortunatly some people take DOB to mean "Date out of Brush" instead of "Date of Birth"

And for the folks running a few 100+ head on several thousand acres who use fall round up for pulling calves, vaccinating and weaning culling open and old cows, the actual date of birth may never be possible, for them, I say leave them in the US food chain, and researve the sale of high quality beef that has complete source, age varrifacation to the Pacific Rim folks, and we can easily meat those standards

This maybe be the case in your region, but far from it in the mountains where summer grazing depends on Forest Service, BLM and State allotments. It is unlawful to have unbranded cattle on the federal allotments in this state and probable anywhere there is federal allotments. June 1 some allotments become permitted for grazing, but most are July 1. So by then all the calves are born and branded and vac. And they have to be out mostly by Sept 15 to Oct 1 depending on the area.

Cattle are calved out in Jan, Feb, Mar and some into April here. And then the fall programs. Most bred cows are sold as late calvers past May 1 and go for canner prices. Those that calve the late cows could care less about the advanced market programs. If most of us calved when we do
Jan/Feb/Mar on the range we would have 100% herd death loss. It can't even be imaginable to calve out like that. 10 to 80 foot of snow from non drifts to drifted. Plus predator and birthing difficulties and feed. It is a very different harsh climate than the south and east ever imagine.
There are no such things a fences during the winter in the mountain allotments. Buried deep under the snow. Which makes it great for snowmobiling up to 100 miles a day for those that like to take a ride.

You have to feed the cattle and check on them morning day and night. Thus all calves can be individually identified and records kept. It all boils down to whether the producer wants to tag and write down or not. And soon it will come down to write down information and tag the calves or get left behind.

There is a fellow who came from down in your region and married a ranch gal from here. He learned the hard way of how different it is from down there. He thought he could use southwest's way of doing things up here. Well lets just say his way lost about 30 head of cattle one winter that were found in Jan by helicopter. Rule one around here - don't shut the gates behind you when you take the cattle off the range for the year and count cattle. It took him about another 5 years to get Montana'ized.

This thread and the brands thread tie hand in hand together.
 
Michelle Pankonien":2b2fcrpo said:
........the actual date of birth may never be possible, for them, I say leave them in the US food chain, and researve the sale of high quality beef that has complete source, age varrifacation to the Pacific Rim folks, and we can easily meat those standards.
I don't really like Michelle's idea of those of us who can't babysit our cows while they calve being relegated to a lower valued marketplace. If a person is going to have to certify a birthdate, it means we're gonna have to keep up with tagging every day to be able to honestly certify DOB of individuals. I don't see what would be wrong with being able to certify groups of cattle instead of individuals. But just like Cattle_gal said, we'll either have to conform with the program or "get left behind."
 

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