USDA allows Red Angus in the CAB program

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So now it will be predominantly red or black. There is no requirement to qualify as CAB that they actually are Angus, just "Angus influenced" whatever that means. So maybe red calves will no longer be docked at the sale barn.
No. You are not reading what I wrote - or what the requirements are as written. Right now, CAB REQUIRES the live animal to be 51% BLACK hided. The RAA is wanting them to change it to read ANGUS, not designate a color. I think the RA people are dreaming - as they should be.
But, you are right IF they ever got AAA to change the rules. Wouldn't that be great? But, we all know the big buyers will find something else to discount.
Then, my red bulls would be just as saleable as my black bull calves. Dang, I have a hard enough time deciding which ones to castrate at birth.
 
No. You are not reading what I wrote - or what the requirements are as written. Right now, CAB REQUIRES the live animal to be 51% BLACK hided. The RAA is wanting them to change it to read ANGUS, not designate a color. I think the RA people are dreaming - as they should be.
But, you are right IF they ever got AAA to change the rules. Wouldn't that be great? But, we all know the big buyers will find something else to discount.
Then, my red bulls would be just as saleable as my black bull calves. Dang, I have a hard enough time deciding which ones to castrate at birth.
It will get pretty pricey really fast if they have to DNA test every calf.
 
I agree the CAB deal will come to roost eventually. They have operated off of the ignorance of producers and consumers and eventually it will take its tole.

It's funny how shocked people are when I tell them it has nothing to do with Angus cattle. For all they know they are eating black corriente cattle. 😝
 
That is correct. But they are ALL 51% BLACK. There is absolutely no requirement to be homo black. There are NO red angus that are RED going thru the program.
I did not mention homo black. As I said there is no mention of breed in the CAB spec. Very plain and straight forward.

Your registered cattle come in red and black. Only the black can be CAB, are there grounds for a law suit?
 
My STEERS are probably my best phenotype calves. They are cut based on BW - so they are the biggest, growthiest. Yes, this is bragging, but every male born on my farm is bull quality - for cows. But, you have to be picky what you want to leave your farm representing your breeding program. We have small breeders out here. Only own 1 bull at a time, so they are used on cows and HEIFERS. If a great bull had crappy EPD's and I sold him to someone that had ONE calving problem, then looked at the EPD's, my reputation would be drug thru the mud. So, even if I have a bull born under 100#, if he had poor CE EPDs, I band him.
My red steers have a great chance of going for a show steer. I get $1550 for them - and $1950 now for bull calves - all leave in October or before. So, I'm not hurting "having" to steer extra red ones.
Well thanks for the reply anyway...
 
"Red Angus producers will soon have more access to market based premiums along with potentially seeing an increased demand for the breed, according to Tom Brink, CEO of the Red Angus Association of America (RAAA).
The association completed negotiations with the U.S. Department of Agriculture in late 2021 which resulted in the USDA allowing the breed to be included in Angus-labeled branded beef programs such as Certified Angus Beef.
The Red Angus Association made the announcement in their newsletter stating, "Red Angus are 'Angus,' and now USDA has officially acknowledged that fact by enabling Red Angus and Red Angus-influenced cattle that meet certain requirements to join black-hided animals in as many Angus brands that decide in favor of their inclusion."


SOUNDS GREAT! RIGHT?? - read the full article:

I have some Red Angus breeders that were really hyped about this new information. I remember reading the above article and thought I remembered how it read, but I re-read it. It was like I thought - nothing to get excited about. "I" personally, don't think AAA will EVER change their rules to read "including Red Angus cattle".
There are 43 other certified Angus programs in addition to CAB. What the ruling from USDA says is IF any of the certified Angus programs wishes to include red Angus, USDA will revise the guidelines for that particular program to allow them. Neither USDA nor Red Angus Association will have any say-so in whether any of the certified Angus programs includes red angus.
 
I did not mention homo black. As I said there is no mention of breed in the CAB spec. Very plain and straight forward.

Your registered cattle come in red and black. Only the black can be CAB, are there grounds for a law suit?
Well hell no. CAB is a program by the AAA, which does not register red cattle, so of course they would never change their criteria to include red. Some of the other 43 certified Angus programs might amend their criteria to include red. but that is totally up to each program.
 
No. You are not reading what I wrote - or what the requirements are as written. Right now, CAB REQUIRES the live animal to be 51% BLACK hided. The RAA is wanting them to change it to read ANGUS, not designate a color. I think the RA people are dreaming - as they should be.
But, you are right IF they ever got AAA to change the rules. Wouldn't that be great? But, we all know the big buyers will find something else to discount.
Then, my red bulls would be just as saleable as my black bull calves. Dang, I have a hard enough time deciding which ones to castrate at birth.
Maybe the RA association could create their own certified Angus program?
 
The AAA sets the requirements for CAB. After all, it is their marketing program, and they make the rules for their program. The USDA inspectors just certify compliance of individual animals with those rules. The article quoted says "The association (RAAA) completed negotiations with the U.S. Department of Agriculture in late 2021 which resulted in the USDA allowing the breed (RA) to be included in Angus-labeled branded beef programs such as Certified Angus Beef."
As Jeanne pointed out, this is an agreement between USDA and RAA that red angus are angus. The statement in the article is a little misleading (maybe on purpose), but the key is the "such as". Such as but not including is probably more accurate.

The red angus and the simmental associations have partnered on some programs over the years. Maybe they need to have a RAB (Real Angus Beef) program with criteria that includes the quality requirements from CAB but removes the majority black requirement. The consumer mainly recognizes the angus word anyway which would still be in the RAB logo. Of course, the present CAB cattle would still qualify for the RAB program so that keeps the numbers up. May be an opportunity there.
DNA not needed for either program since being angus is not a requirement for either.
 
My guess is that the RAA already has programs in mind or in process of developing. And will use "angus " in the name rather than "red angus" in the name(s).
What this decision does is make it that much harder for the AAA to file lawsuits or trademark infringement lawsuits. Because all the have to use in their defense is look the USDA has certified and agreed we are angus too.
 
I suspect they are going to introduce some kind of quick DNA test soon. Reds will still test as Angus, but any cattle without enough Angus in them will be excluded no matter what color they are. Just one more step in the CAB debacle.
I think you are correct. The reason APHA ( American Paint Horse Association) exists is because of the excessive white rule in AQHA. When AQHA was formed in the 40's,there was no DNA testing. There is no tobiano coat patterns in any existing horse breeds. Tobiano is only found in pony breeds. So, excessive white was a strong indication that somewhere in the pedigree wood pile was a pony. Quite often, breeding two AQHA sorrels with white stockings and a blaze face, would result in a foal that had too much white to be registered AQHA, so APHA was created to register those horses, About 15 or so years ago, a prominent and wealthy AQHA breeder had a fols that had too much white, and decided to sue. The court ruled that with the DNA testing that AQHA had required for years, that a QH x QH = a QH, and the white rule was thrown out. And many a registered APHA paint horse went back and got their AQHA papers, too.

I too, see DNA testing become a criteria for some branded beef programs, and a cheap and quick DNA test will be developed. This will allow many red Angus to be included in the programs that want them, but will exclude all of the breeds that have been " bred up" form Angus. You can have red and spotted Simmentals again, red Gelbievs and limis again, etc. ! Where as Balancers and SImmAngus would probably still qualify. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
 
I disagree. I doubt you will ever see a dna test where the testing company will be willing to say "this animal is breed x influenced at the exclusion of all others. The black hide craze has already spread the "angus " type genes into to many other breeds.
What geneotype separates them from other breeds? Can't be black ,because you have red angus. So what dna sequence is only in angus at the exclusion of all other breeds?
What about the black Galloway? Will they test positive for angus they are black hided?
What happens when you cross a white Galloway to an angus and end up with 100 percent white offspring? Will they test positive for this angus in this dna test. They can be heterozygous for "angus black genotype" and still have a white phenotype?
 
That is correct. But they are ALL 51% BLACK. There is absolutely no requirement to be homo black. There are NO red angus that are RED going thru the program.
This may surprise you, but Red Angus are Red because they are Red and the Red is not from the infusion of another breed so they can be
called Red Angus. If a Red Angus bull is better (or worse) it is not because they are Red. Black hided cattle on the other hand are held to
a different albeit lower standard.
 
You have to understand, the CAB program was established by congress when some AAA lobbyists convinced some idiot congressperson to sponsor some legislation. As much is the case a lot of the time, the members of Congress had no idea what they were doing or talking about and passed it blindly. There are only so many things the USDA can change without congressional action to change the CFR's.

And the lawsuit route has failed in the past.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/829/807/1876967/
.
 
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I would think the Court of Public Opinion will give its ruling as information becomes available.
 
Seems to me the place to start would be to merge the two associations into the single breed that they are like most other places in the world. Absolutely ridiculous to have two associations for one breed divided down the lines of colour.
My experience has been that red angus breeders are more likely to be concerned about real traits that effect producers and not just chasing numbers and carcass. If color isnt the premium, the game changes completely. If the pendulum swings the other way, I would bet the current red angus breeders would resist joining the dark side.

If they use a DNA test and see that a significant portion of the CAB carcasses are not close to 50% Angus, the CAB brand will either grow or die - I can't guess which.
 
CAB is a ''beef'' program not a breed program. If it helps beef retain its share of the protein market it helps us all.

The poultry and pork producers just laugh at the cattle squabbling and take more of the market share.
 

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