US border

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Should the US border open or stay closed to Candaian Live cattle

  • I think it should immediately

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It should stay closed

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .

dun

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ccstockfarms_2003":2xaj9h14 said:
Should the US border open or remain closed to Canadian Live cattle?

I'll try to see if I can say this in such a way that it's understood.

OPEN the border

dun
 

ollie

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For the lack of help in the war on terror and the recent posts on how unhelpful the Americans packing plants have been to the Canadian beef industry , I would say we don't have many friends left on that side of the border.
I say do what is best for the U.S.A. ranchers and farmers. Whatever that is.
 

dun

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ollie":33mn6yr6 said:
For the lack of help in the war on terror and the recent posts on how unhelpful the Americans packing plants have been to the Canadian beef industry , I would say we don't have many friends left on that side of the border.
I say do what is best for the U.S.A. ranchers and farmers. Whatever that is.

Part of the reason I would like to see the border opened is to stick it up the butt of the R-calf (expletives deleted) that are screwing the kanucks and lining their pockets. Is there any doubt that they would do the same to us if given the chance?

dun
 

ollie

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Please clarify your statement. Are you saying the Canadians would do it to us or that R-Calf would.
 

ollie

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After rereading I'll assume your saying R-Calf. The only R-Calf member that I know of is Leo McDonnell and he always seemed decent and square shooting to me. Leo McDonnell of Midland bull test.There has been lots of dollars spent in Canada on seedstock and it seems like they think all of their troubles are our fault. As an American I personally don't feel too responsible.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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There has been lots of dollars spent in Canada on seedstock and it seems like they think all of their troubles are our fault. As an American I personally don't feel too responsible.

Here we go again. All of our problems are not caused by the Americans. But this is what happened to the best of my recollection. In the province I live in, we had capacity and more for all our slaughtering needs. In the early eighties, there were 7 large slaughtering plants in Manitoba. When the free trade agreement was struck, feedlot owners and packers started coming from the States and buying our cattle. The US $ was worth more than the CDN $ and our guys just couldn't compete. Our last large plant closed in the early 90's. But we had a North American market, so that didn't really matter. We were growing the beef, US was buying the beef. We were making money, US was making money and everybody was happy. All of a sudden, it is no longer a North American market and we have no place to sell our cattle. Even though, I am aware that in some ways we let that happen, if there had been no free trade agreement, it wouldn't have happened because we'd still have our slaughter facilities.
 

ollie

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While I believe what you say it seems logical to me if it was that simple there would be a trail a mile wide where the Canadian packers ran to our side of the border and set up several packing houses in America to buy Canadian beef. Lots of things seem clear CRR but at the time it wasn't as cut and dried as it now seems in retrospect.
 

la4angus

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I say the border should be opened immediately and the U.S.of A should start testing any cattlle that the export customers want tested. If the public and private companies ran their business like the USDA is trying to run this they would be bankrupt. The "CUSTOMER is Always RIGHT" no matter how smart Management is
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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While I believe what you say it seems logical to me if it was that simple there would be a trail a mile wide where the Canadian packers ran to our side of the border and set up several packing houses in America to buy Canadian beef. Lots of things seem clear CRR but at the time it wasn't as cut and dried as it now seems in retrospect.

I think that you are not taking into account the currency exchange. Our dollar right now buys about $.75 US and thats best its been for a long time. But you can also see that our two largest plants in Canada are American owned, bought with $US. You also have to remember that Canadians are not quite as of aggressive marketers as the US. For example, you don't have the Bay or Zellers in the States, but we have Sears and Wal-Mart up here. But, I agree, there were union problems that also lead to the plants not being competitive and I remember when the plants were being shut down, thinking that it was good that the companies were socking it to the unions. As a country boy, it seemed crazy to me what these guys were getting paid compared to the producers. But I'm not laughing now.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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But, I agree, there were union problems that also lead to the plants not being competitive

But when I think about this a little more, the companies asked the unions to make concessions to remain competitive and the unions would not bend, so it was still a matter of not being competitive with the US packers.
 
A

Anonymous

Here we go again. All of our problems are not caused by the Americans. But this is what happened to the best of my recollection. In the province I live in, we had capacity and more for all our slaughtering needs. In the early eighties, there were 7 large slaughtering plants in Manitoba. When the free trade agreement was struck, feedlot owners and packers started coming from the States and buying our cattle. The US $ was worth more than the CDN $ and our guys just couldn't compete. Our last large plant closed in the early 90's. But we had a North American market, so that didn't really matter. We were growing the beef, US was buying the beef. We were making money, US was making money and everybody was happy. All of a sudden, it is no longer a North American market and we have no place to sell our cattle. Even though, I am aware that in some ways we let that happen, if there had been no free trade agreement, it wouldn't have happened because we'd still have our slaughter facilities.

OH BOY, NAFTA (I should suht up now but I won't)
Ross told folks NAFTA was BAD BAD, but they insisted on making fun of him.
Klinton and his minions along with a bunch of the stupid publicans pushed it through and now WE (are Canadian friends included) are paying the price
 

J Baxter

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Ollie,

What better way to get back at the liberal Canadiens than to open the border and drive up their cheap food supply? I don't think it is the ranchers and farmers that are the be nices. It is the liberal city dwellers. Anyhow, I beleive the net effect will be minimal to us.

So I vote to open the border.....anything to get at them liberal pukes.

JB
 

ollie

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CRR I am also ignorant on the environmental regulations and taxes. Is there a competative difference there?
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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ollie:

Don't know about environmental regulations although they are getting tighter but I guarantee that business taxes in Manitoba would be higher than anywhere in the US. I don't know how much higher but no matter how you do your tax planning, taxes up here are higher on everything.
 

ollie

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CRR It seems to me that with the labor unions, the exchange rate, the tax rate, and the american business model of being agressive , that the reason they moved the packing plants out was a sound business move at the time. The only way to prevent this movement was to leave the border closed to american investment and free trade. This sounds precisely like the decision that r-calf is wanting made. They would like to leave the border closed from a protectionist viewpoint. ( if you don't believe their argument that Canadian beef is unsafe.) I still think it is the greatest opportunity in my life time to make a fortune. I even p.m.ed you about buying cattle. I actually think the most money to be made would be vertically integrating the beef supply chain now in Canada. Ya'll need to throw in together and find some American partners that have the capital to put together some serious numbers of cattle and make money instead of worrying about who owns slaughter cattle. I never did buy any canadian cattle by the way. The way it looks I would have been calving them next spring in the feedlot.
 

Oldtimer

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I have no problem in opening the border to Canadian beef- but am against opening it to live cattle until USDA can develop a system to trace all cattle coming in to insure they do not enter the US breeding herd- We do not need another Canadian origin cow coming into our US herd that tests positive for BSE, especially if we have no way of tracing it back to Canada.

This is a requirement that has been called for by all major Ag organizations- NCBA, R-CALF, FU, and FB.
 

Oldtimer

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dun":2cfjox0j said:
Part of the reason I would like to see the border opened is to stick it up the butt of the R-calf (expletives deleted) that are screwing the kanucks and lining their pockets. Is there any doubt that they would do the same to us if given the chance?

dun

GURU OR NO GURU- Please explain. I am one of those R-CALF (expletive deleted) members. Would you tell me how I am lining my pockets and How I'm screwing the Canucks??

R-CALF did not close the border- BSE and the USDA policy did. R-CALF has not kept the border unopened- BSE and the USDA policy did. All R-CALF did was legally challenge USDA's failure to follow its own policies.

Am I lining my pockets because for the first time in years we are getting a fair price for our cattle? I will agree that it is an issue R-CALF has argued for years- that if we didn't have the huge glut of Canadian live cattle and beef that we would have much better cattle prices- and when the border closed it showed- When else have you seen cull cows selling for [email protected] and cull bulls selling for [email protected]? Have you ever sold $1.50 calves before? This with our export market closed.

All R-CALF has ever asked for is fair trade. Canadians wouldn't let American cattle into Canada for 10 years without costly testing and quarantine- there was a Canadian herd and a US herd- US cattle were considered diseased. This was at a time when the Canadians were in the process of doubling the size of the Canadian herd- way more than they could consume domestically and without developing any exports on their own- they became totally dependent on the US. Now that BSE has come about in Canada, they call it a North American herd and want us to forget about the disease concern we have.

All R-CALF (and NCBA) are asking is that all live cattle coming into the US be permanently marked and not allowed into the breeding herd until time can pass to prove the Canadian herd is BSE free. The US, so far, is still BSE free- we have not had a positive on a cow of US origin. Should we not do everything in our power to try to keep it that way?
 
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