Updating our Working Facilities

Help Support CattleToday:

You are 100% right that the width of the back of that bud box was a problem but it was manageable. My big issue with the bud box is not getting them to flow. I know how to pressure and move cattle based on presence and movement. My issue was they would hit that alley and stall right at the mouth. They were at 90 degrees to the gate, they had sufficient dayllight, etc but just way too much time spent seeing them stall out, then having to push them to the back of the box and get them flowing back again. Part of the issue is trying to have a one-size fits all alley that really just meant I had an alley that a 400 lber could still turn around in but a 1600 lbs cow couldnt fit down well.
My alley is 29" wide between posts (with 1 1/4" horizontal rod drilled through the main posts on center). Straight vertical sides, BUT, I mounted guard rails, two high stacked one right on top of the other (so the top of the rail is about 24" or so above the floor height), as the bottom "rails". This then keeps the calves from turning around, without hindering or causing the cows to feel like their feet are set "too narrow to balance". THIS IS IMPORTANT... they want to set their feet out wide enough to maintain balance easily, particularly when they're in a confined space. Minimum width of a cow path obviously... but a little wider room here is going to be better for flow through. So my alley then ends up being about 21" between the guard rails. Their belly's will rub along the top of the rail, but that's their "soft part", so not a problem. We run 150 pairs through this alley several times a year (embryo work), and never have calves turn around in it, unless we might have a VERY small one that accomplishes it. Most roll right straight through without stopping. I have a cut gate on the front and the back of the 21' long alley, to control them. Just about every time, if an animal isn't moving forward in the alley appropriately, it's because there's a man outside of the alley... like working the front end up by the squeeze chute (the alley has open sides above those guardrails), and he's not paying attention to his body position and the incoming animal's reaction to him. If he just works his way back past the cow that's been trapped in the alley, most of the time she'll move forward as he goes past her shoulder toward her back end. I'll load 3 and close the cut gate. When the guys at the chute get it down to 1 left in the alley, I'll load some more (they'll always go in better if there's already an animal in there). I have a Medina Hinge in the Box on the back end of the alley, which can allow me to load an extra couple of animals in the ready (extends the alley length another 12'), if I want to.

Vet absolutely loves working with us because of how smoothly everything goes... says he wishes they all went like they do here!
 
Last edited:
Around here I know of more with over 1,000 than I know of with less than 100.

Yesterday morning when I pulled off the freeway to go church I met the leaders of about 300 cows marching on the over pass over the freeway. At that point they had traveled around 5 or 6 miles. They had already walked past the hospital, 3 big churches, a number of businesses, a couple of housing developments, across a main intersection (they would have ran the stop sign), and across the RR track (it is a mail line). Six cowboys horse back and an assortment of dogs.
yea right.. 100 acres to the cow minimum???? around you.. you're talking hundreds of thousands of acres for that many cows. I'm sure you know hundreds of people with thousands of cows all around you. btw I didn't have to drive down the road past the church and through the woods to see that many cows. .I fed that many this morning.. that me myself and I own.
 
yea right.. 100 acres to the cow minimum???? around you.. you're talking hundreds of thousands of acres for that many cows. I'm sure you know hundreds of people with thousands of cows all around you. btw I didn't have to drive down the road past the church and through the woods to see that many cows. .I fed that many this morning.. that me myself and I own.
There just aren't the small places around here. If you have cows you do it for a living. No, I don't know hundreds of people with thousands of cows but I do know some. Here in my little valley I am the only one with less than 100. Between here and the post office it is 5 miles. Driving to the post office I pass 4 ranches. They have 300, 180, 1,200, and 250 cows.
We don't need 100 acres per cow. That is the area south of here. We are probably running 50 acres per cow or around that.
 
yea right.. 100 acres to the cow minimum???? around you.. you're talking hundreds of thousands of acres for that many cows. I'm sure you know hundreds of people with thousands of cows all around you. btw I didn't have to drive down the road past the church and through the woods to see that many cows. .I fed that many this morning.. that me myself and I own.
I'm not sure if you want an attaboy or if you really dont believe that farming and ranching is different in different places? I am genuinely curious about what you do and your model though. Feedlot? Cow/calf? Combo?
 
Couldn't agree more. I don't know how many free standing panels I have (over 100 I'm sure) but it's not enough. They have only gone up in value over time. The list of benefits is too long to list.
Having them is just like playing farm all over again. Between feed panels and fence panels we are close to 6500 feet of them now. Very simple tax write off that appreciates.
 
My big issue with the bud box is not getting them to flow. I know how to pressure and move cattle based on presence and movement. My issue was they would hit that alley and stall right at the mouth.
Artesian, did they stall out in front of the alley, or once they had moved into it, and just wouldn't move forward? I kind of answered assuming that they stalled once they were IN the alley... like one would enter, but wouldn't move forward.

If they're stalling in front of the alley, you're likely giving them too much room at the entrance, or not "throttling" them quite right, so they flow past you single file. Sometimes you'll get a belligerent one that will balk there instead of going in, and she'll try to run through you (YOU, with your body position, are the gate that guides them and keeps them flowing into the alley instead of turning back toward the other critters in the Box). Those are the ones that you might need the Medina Hinge for. But most of the time, if you're "single-filing them", and you've not got too much space between you and the fenceline at the entrance to the alleyway (thus WIDTH of the Bud Box is critical here... you can only effectively work a certain amount of space with your body position... I find a 12' width to be "just right" for me), the critter will flow right around past you and into the alley.

This is MORE effective, if you generally try to keep your back to the alleyway. You'll feel less threatening to the animals as they go around past you, if you're not facing them as they go by. Don't turn your back on a dangerous animal... but most aren't that type, and they'll feel like they're escaping past you into that alley more, if you do it this way.
 
Artesian, did they stall out in front of the alley, or once they had moved into it, and just wouldn't move forward? I kind of answered assuming that they stalled once they were IN the alley... like one would enter, but wouldn't move forward.

If they're stalling in front of the alley, you're likely giving them too much room at the entrance, or not "throttling" them quite right, so they flow past you single file. Sometimes you'll get a belligerent one that will balk there instead of going in, and she'll try to run through you (YOU, with your body position, are the gate that guides them and keeps them flowing into the alley instead of turning back toward the other critters in the Box). Those are the ones that you might need the Medina Hinge for. But most of the time, if you're "single-filing them", and you've not got too much space between you and the fenceline at the entrance to the alleyway (thus WIDTH of the Bud Box is critical here... you can only effectively work a certain amount of space with your body position... I find a 12' width to be "just right" for me), the critter will flow right around past you and into the alley.

This is MORE effective, if you generally try to keep your back to the alleyway. You'll feel less threatening to the animals as they go around past you, if you're not facing them as they go by. Don't turn your back on a dangerous animal... but most aren't that type, and they'll feel like they're escaping past you into that alley more, if you do it this way.
For us, they would stall right in the box but head or neck in the alley. We rotationally graze pretty tight paddocks and are in with the cattle daily 6-7 months a year. They are beef cows but their flight zones, for the average cow, are pretty small. I found the bud box worked well for our calves and yearlings because they were just more motivated to not let my pressure squeeze them, but the cows were more willing to accept pressure, less desirous to head down that alley again. Now that I'm using a sweep, the cows are flowing well and the calves are more confused. Cant win em all.
 
ok, so here's the process and new setup. I decided I didnt want to worry about rot, slivers, and the odd rank critter anymore so I went with steel posts, steel panels, and some freestanding panels to make internal pens and to connect the pens to the working area. I'm not done by any means but this is an area where I'm confident I will always have cows so I decided to buy once, cry once.

First I graded the area:

0B9794E4-7C88-4251-9CA9-3AD64141CF96_1_105_c.jpeg638713D9-B716-4B51-B065-6EAAE2F0AE50_1_105_c.jpeg216A6537-857F-4068-85D4-560F63BE20E1_1_102_o.jpeg



To deal with the rock issue, and knowing I have a few miles of hi-tensile to put up the next couple years, I added this tool to the mix:

4DE9F6B4-3E63-4190-8F10-0BFC0C54E866_1_102_o.jpeg

This is how it looked once we got steel in the ground:

40BFD4D7-4CB3-4ECC-B484-43CE2437C2B3_1_105_c.jpeg

There are very few pieces of equipment that have made me smile like that post pounder. For our conditions, its asolutely amazing.

I didnt get many pictures of welding up panels or gates:

0A2DD2B9-B47E-4D2A-95EC-32E929584F9E_1_105_c.jpeg

In the end, here's what I've got so far. The working system is all under the lean-to. More pics of that later.

E76E24C7-B8AD-4BFD-BABA-E127D3676BF5_1_105_c.jpegA0268F8F-2644-4C57-ABAB-47CB23D1F932_1_105_c.jpeg
When we have something that needs the chute, we will run panels to it like this, but this also shows why I dont leave them there all the time:

D4DA2A48-4185-4918-BEC3-13D80FCDB716_1_105_c.jpeg0C5C4DD8-361A-4F64-9B15-12EFFE9B7A06_1_102_o.jpeg
 
I really like everyones "small beef herd" around here. 200 pairs? small. 120 cows? small.

crazy cuz i've been all over and I very rarely ever see any herds larger than 50 pairs. I live in cow/calf country and its still pretty rare to see over 100 cows in a place. to prove a point.. you say those pens you posts pics of will run 120 cows and be fine. well, I'll run 120 hd through there and they would have that weak little pen completely destroyed before we were done. don't get mad, I just live in real life
Are you saying 50 pairs in a pasture or the owner only runs 50 hd? I'd say 100 hd on 1 ranch is just getting into the medium sized operator around here. Lots of big ranches in the county though.
 
Those post pounders are incredible. We got one last fall and it's a game changer for sure.
I'd heard some positive reports but I honestly still cant believe it. When you can drive a treated pine post 4' in the ground and have it be within 5 degrees of plumb in less than 2 minutes in our soil, it almost feels like it defies the laws of physics. when we sunk the first steel post, my brother in law and I just looked at each other with a goofy grin on our faces and said "I think I like this" about 50 times.
 
Post pounder on a skid steer is a game changer. Since getting an excavator I don't use my pounder as much, but it's still handy as heck. Don't hardly use an auger for anything anymore.
 
We get places our excavator won't push posts. The excavator cant be beat for speed in good going though. I can go along with the skid steer and finish the posts the excavator cant get. The skidsteer driver is the answer for brace posts.
 
I can always push them in at least somewhat with the excavator. In the spring when things are soft I can usually go down the full 6'+ but when things firm up I can sometimes only push them in 2' then I finish them off with the SS post pounder.
 
We get places our excavator won't push posts. The excavator cant be beat for speed in good going though. I can go along with the skid steer and finish the posts the excavator cant get. The skidsteer driver is the answer for brace posts.
We have a vibrator on the excavator.
 
We have a vibrator on the excavator.
I've looked at a hoe-pack for mine but never found one with the right size, lugging, and price all in one unit. I do like pushing with the excavator though. I can carry a full bundle of posts in the bucket so it saves a lot of post handling labour.
 
My opinion after seeing some posts that were pounded in very hard ground several years ago, if the ground is extremely hard the post driver will actually do some damage to the interior of the post allowing water to get into it easier.
I take used oil filters and put them on top of the wood posts and let them drain. Over a few weeks you will be suprised how much oil drains out and protects the top of the post.
 
Last edited:
My son builds fences full time. Mostly clay in this area. When the soil gets extremely dry (drought conditions), you can beat a post to death. Whether breaker style driver or deadweight drop pounder. He puts a water tank on the truck connected to a pressure washer. Jet out a small hole with the pressure washer and then drive the post. Takes more time but lets them build fence instead of waiting out the drought.
 

Latest posts

Top