Updating our Working Facilities

[artesianspringsfarm]

I know I really enjoy seeing how other people are set up and I know that a number of ideas I saw in pictures here went in to some of my set up. I thought I would try to show what we are doing to upgrade our holding and working area currently. This is still a work in progress. First post I will show you all our first working facility setup, built about 12 years ago.

The Location and also mistake #1 in making a holding and working area. I didnt do any groundwork, grading, or stripping. We wrestled with mud and muck the whole time after putting this facility here and leaving our topsoil on, etc:



We have a bit of a problem in our area with rocks. In fact, its what we grow best here. I'm not talking gravelly ground, I'm talking real rocks. After using a 3 point auger to put in all our perimeter fencing, I knew we just couldnt make pens that way but we tried it first anyway. It looked a lot like this:




This project put me over the edge and got me to get a Shaver Post-pounder, which felt amazing for its time:



Next mistake: using cedar instead of treated posts. The knotty Cedar posts dont like the post pounder much and I can say that in our climate, the definitively do not last as long. 12 years and they were pretty well rotted out at the ground.

Here is what we ended up with for 12 years. Served us reasonably well:


I will put up another post showing what we replaced this system with, why we needed to upgrade, and what improvements I think weve made. Time will tell . . .

 

[RDFF]

Boy, I sure don't envy you trying to put posts into those rocks! Use the heavy 24' freestanding panels. Move them anywhere you might need them. Can't build a comparable fixed in place corral for the same money. WRECK-PROOF! Resale value in them when you're all done... And they allow you to make important and necessary changes to your setup anytime, and as you learn more about how you want to handle cattle. Why the two separate alleys in the image above?

 

[RDFF]

Take a look at this older thread for ideas. Bud Box vs. Bud Flow Tub

 

[wbvs58]

Rocks are a way of life here also, you learn to be very innovative.

Ken

 

[Rafter S]

I don't have any photos of it, but here is the drawing of the working pens I designed and built at a rent pasture almost twenty years ago. If I was doing it again the alley at top would probably be 10' wide instead of 12', but other than that I liked it.

I especially liked all the gates. You can't hardly have too many gates.

 

[WFfarm]

Did you look into grants for working facilities and equipment? I think it was thru the state? Our neighbor bought a new squeeze chute last fall and was talking about getting a grant that would pay for half, up to $5K.

 

[Dave]

When I rebuilt the corral I changed where the chute sat. This required 20 or 30 new posts. I dug the hole with a mini excavator that had a 20 inch bucket and a thumb. I founds some rocks which wouldn't fit in the 20 inch bucket. One problem using the excavator to dig post holes is you end up with a hole the size of a small grave.

 

[Silver]

Boy, I sure don't envy you trying to put posts into those rocks! Use the heavy 24' freestanding panels. Move them anywhere you might need them. Can't build a comparable fixed in place corral for the same money. WRECK-PROOF! Resale value in them when you're all done... And they allow you to make important and necessary changes to your setup anytime, and as you learn more about how you want to handle cattle. Why the two separate alleys in the image above?

Couldn't agree more. I don't know how many free standing panels I have (over 100 I'm sure) but it's not enough. They have only gone up in value over time. The list of benefits is too long to list.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

Boy, I sure don't envy you trying to put posts into those rocks! Use the heavy 24' freestanding panels. Move them anywhere you might need them. Can't build a comparable fixed in place corral for the same money. WRECK-PROOF! Resale value in them when you're all done... And they allow you to make important and necessary changes to your setup anytime, and as you learn more about how you want to handle cattle. Why the two separate alleys in the image above?

You will see that Freestanding panels defnitely come into play in our new setup when I have time to post that. Those heavy duty freestanding panels are the way to go for so many applications.

The alley going toward the red polebarn was to load out. The alley going toward the dairy barn had a homemeade chute with a Priefert headcatch on it. Both alleys were basically fed by my version of a bud box. They didnt work well for us unless we also put gates on the entrance post to the alley and kind of "swept" the cattle into the alley.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

I don't have any photos of it, but here is the drawing of the working pens I designed and built at a rent pasture almost twenty years ago. If I was doing it again the alley at top would probably be 10' wide instead of 12', but other than that I liked it.

I especially liked all the gates. You can't hardly have too many gates.

View attachment 53261

There's an awful lot I like about this setup, especially all the gates. I'm with you 100%. Other than not having a catch in this setup (I get that this was rental pasture), this could be an example I would give to any newcomer looking for a relatively simple, safe setup for a small beef herd (under 120).

 

[cowman82]

pipe will drive a lot better than those posts in that rock.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

Couldn't agree more. I don't know how many free standing panels I have (over 100 I'm sure) but it's not enough. They have only gone up in value over time. The list of benefits is too long to list.

I like what I built so far but I already think if I did it over again, I would just do ALL freestanding panels. They are virtually unheard of up here in NY, but I am even considering just buying a trailer load of them and selling them.

 

[cowman82]

I really like everyones "small beef herd" around here. 200 pairs? small. 120 cows? small.

crazy cuz i've been all over and I very rarely ever see any herds larger than 50 pairs. I live in cow/calf country and its still pretty rare to see over 100 cows in a place. to prove a point.. you say those pens you posts pics of will run 120 cows and be fine. well, I'll run 120 hd through there and they would have that weak little pen completely destroyed before we were done. don't get mad, I just live in real life

 

[Dave]

I really like everyones "small beef herd" around here. 200 pairs? small. 120 cows? small.

crazy cuz i've been all over and I very rarely ever see any herds larger than 50 pairs. I live in cow/calf country and its still pretty rare to see over 100 cows in a place. to prove a point.. you say those pens you posts pics of will run 120 cows and be fine. well, I'll run 120 hd through there and they would have that weak little pen completely destroyed before we were done. don't get mad, I just live in real life

Around here I know of more with over 1,000 than I know of with less than 100.

Yesterday morning when I pulled off the freeway to go church I met the leaders of about 300 cows marching on the over pass over the freeway. At that point they had traveled around 5 or 6 miles. They had already walked past the hospital, 3 big churches, a number of businesses, a couple of housing developments, across a main intersection (they would have ran the stop sign), and across the RR track (it is a mail line). Six cowboys horse back and an assortment of dogs.

 

[Travlr]

I don't have any photos of it, but here is the drawing of the working pens I designed and built at a rent pasture almost twenty years ago. If I was doing it again the alley at top would probably be 10' wide instead of 12', but other than that I liked it.

I especially liked all the gates. You can't hardly have too many gates.

View attachment 53261

I've always put the gates so they close toward the corner, so you can use them for sorting.

 

[RDFF]

You will see that Freestanding panels defnitely come into play in our new setup when I have time to post that. Those heavy duty freestanding panels are the way to go for so many applications.

The alley going toward the red polebarn was to load out. The alley going toward the dairy barn had a homemeade chute with a Priefert headcatch on it. Both alleys were basically fed by my version of a bud box. They didnt work well for us unless we also put gates on the entrance post to the alley and kind of "swept" the cattle into the alley.

If a Bud Box isn't working, that's most likely because you're not operating within it/positioning yourself relative to the animals the way they're intended to be used. If you're trying to drive/force/pressure the animals toward/into the alley, you're not fully understanding the principle behind the Bud Box. If you place any sort of "narrowing Y" shape leading up to your alley... it's designed wrong. If the alley goes off at something other than a 90° out of one corner of the Bud Box... it'll not work as well. The animals HAVE TO be coming around (circling) past the man in the Box, as they turn into the alley.

In your aerial pic above, the design of the top Box & alley would cause some issues, IMO. Box is wider at the back, rather than having parallel sides... this additional width would likely allow too much room, causing animals to turn back into the Box, instead of coming forward and around past the man standing next to and throttling them into the alley.

The bottom box/alley design appears to me that it would likely work somewhat better, if (as I would assume) you're using the left end of the wider leadup alley as your Box. But even then, if the man in the Box doesn't understand how to function within it, it won't work properly. Add a Medina Hinge for when you need it, and you'd have it. The alley on this one APPEARS to be wider at the entrance end, so that could potentially be a problem... hard to tell from the pic.

That's the beauty of the freestanding panels. You can change your layout ANYTIME you want, as you learn how to better make it work. NOTHING is "set in the ground"... immovable.

Take a look at that CT link, and watch the videos that I referenced there, and pay attention to the commentary about body position within the Box. Pay attention to how the operator in that video functions, in regard to the comments I made there. These are/can be very subtle body position points... Maybe you've got a really good grasp of these, or maybe you don't quite just yet... But a Bud Box works great, if you get all of these important little nuances "right". That said, as I have often suggested, type of system is a personal preference thing. For the operator who doesn't want to be in the pen with the animals, a crowding tub system just might be a more appealing choice.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

I will calve out 35 cows this spring and for my area, I'm not a small beef guy. There are dozens around me that have 5-10 calves a year if the bull did its job. THey dont preg-check or count costs, they just have cows because they have cows. In NYS, if you make your living off beef cattle, you are either a seedstock producer, someone with feedlots, or some kind of broker/trader. No one works cows on horseback, some because they dont work them period, and others because they breed for docility and are around their cows daily. This isnt open range country. Heck, an 80 acre field is a HUGE field here. 4-20 acre fields patchworked between hardwoods and side hills is the norm.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

If a Bud Box isn't working, that's most likely because you're not operating within it/positioning yourself relative to the animals the way they're intended to be used. If you're trying to drive/force/pressure the animals toward/into the alley, you're not fully understanding the principle behind the Bud Box. If you place any sort of "narrowing Y" shape leading up to your alley... it's designed wrong. If the alley goes off at something other than a 90° out of one corner of the Bud Box... it'll not work as well. The animals HAVE TO be coming around (circling) past the man in the Box, as they turn into the alley.

In your aerial pic above, the design of the top Box & alley would cause some issues, IMO. Box is wider at the back, rather than having parallel sides... this additional width would likely allow too much room, causing animals to turn back into the Box, instead of coming forward and around past the man standing next to and throttling them into the alley.

The bottom box/alley design appears to me that it would likely work somewhat better, if (as I would assume) you're using the left end of the wider leadup alley as your Box. But even then, if the man in the Box doesn't understand how to function within it, it won't work properly. Add a Medina Hinge for when you need it, and you'd have it. The alley on this one APPEARS to be wider at the entrance end, so that could potentially be a problem... hard to tell from the pic.

That's the beauty of the freestanding panels. You can change your layout ANYTIME you want, as you learn how to better make it work. NOTHING is "set in the ground"... immovable.

Take a look at that CT link, and watch the videos that I referenced there, and pay attention to the commentary about body position within the Box. Pay attention to how the operator in that video functions, in regard to the comments I made there. These are/can be very subtle body position points... Maybe you've got a really good grasp of these, or maybe you don't quite just yet... But a Bud Box works great, if you get all of these important little nuances "right". That said, as I have often suggested, type of system is a personal preference thing. For the operator who doesn't want to be in the pen with the animals, a crowding tub system just might be a more appealing choice.

You are 100% right that the width of the back of that bud box was a problem but it was manageable. My big issue with the bud box is not getting them to flow. I know how to pressure and move cattle based on presence and movement. My issue was they would hit that alley and stall right at the mouth. They were at 90 degrees to the gate, they had sufficient dayllight, etc but just way too much time spent seeing them stall out, then having to push them to the back of the box and get them flowing back again. Part of the issue is trying to have a one-size fits all alley that really just meant I had an alley that a 400 lber could still turn around in but a 1600 lbs cow couldnt fit down well.

 

[RDFF]

Borderline Fabrication Best panels I've found yet. Full framed, mitered corners, heavy chains that are long enough, the "right" keyslot for the chains, weep holes to prevent pipe burst from freezing. Mine are the 5 bar 1".

 

[Lucky]

I like this setup. Looks like it would flow good.