Update on the Kudzu- Corriente herd since we sold it.

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@RDFF, The man who bought our Corr herd last year, is located to the east and a little south of us, but basically has the same climate and conditions. He has 150 acres I think, and 20 acres is in irrigated hay. Russell Bermuda, fertilized to UGA specs, and he tests and reapplies what is called for at each cutting. He sprays herbicides to keep it weed free, Johnson Grass free, crab grass free, etc. , and you can't kill Johnson grass or crab grass with just cheap 24D. He raises this hay for his cows, and to sell as horse-quality hay. Half of his pastures are Alicia bermuda, and about half in the new World Feeder/Alfalfa that UGA has been experimenting with for pasture forage, not hay. These too, he fertilizes to specs, and keeps weed free. He has protein tubs out, has rubs all over for fly control, and he worms and vaccinates, the whole nine yards, like he did his other cattle. He has these same input costs as any other cattleman . These cows we had bred to Brangus before he got them. Those calves weaned at exactly the same weight we had been averaging. Granted, they didn't get half the protein in their forage as they did when we had them. I just don't see the advantage for him with those kind of inputs, other than he can raise 3 on what he could raise Angus or Herford on, and 4-5 on what he could raise Continentals on. He bought 95 from us, where as, when he had Braford, BM, and Gert cows and bred to Brangus he had 50 cows at the most. I guess it is a situation like what @Lee VanRoss advocates: Lbs per acre instead of head per acre. He gave us $98k for the herd, a little over $1k per pair. Dunno if he sold his eared cows as pairs or just heavy breds, but either way he probably got $2k to $2500 per head, so he started out in the black.

If someone with an operation this nice called me about getting Corrs and breeding them to beef bulls, I would probably be hesitant to push Corrs on them...would probably advise against it. In fact, we met this man at our 2021 dove shoot, and Scott and I both pointed out the cons on him trying to replicate what we do on his place. Now, if someone called and had some rough, un-improved land, like cut-over timber, or just land that had grown up wild and unimproved for years, especially if it was full of Kudzu, then yeah, I would tell them to string a fence around the place and load it up with Corrs.
 
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Warren, I tend to agree... think you're onto something with the kind of land you've got. Probably not as good a fit on "improved pasture" or "converted cropland". ...CONTEXT!

I've been waiting on your response to the post I put up a few days ago... Calculated this into your production costs? I'd like to see a pic of your Corrs in the Kudzu with one of these on them.
 
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Warren, I tend to agree... think you're onto something with the kind of land you've got. Probably not as good a fit on "improved pasture" or "converted cropland". ...CONTEXT!

I've been waiting on your response to the post I put up a few days ago... Calculated this into your production costs? I'd like to see a pic of your Corrs in the Kudzu with one of these on them.
 
Those things probably cost more than the cows did. Probably buy a few for what one of those cost. And, putting them on a dairy cow that is handled twice a day, would be a lot easier than putting them on Corrientes that get handled twice a year!

Scott has 450 acres across the road that he raises peanuts, beans, corn and cotton on. Our dove field takes up 50 acres, and the other 400 are in crops. It is divided by fence into 4 fields about 100 acres each. This year he is just doing beans and peanuts. Last night we were talking about maybe taking that 400 and turning it into pasture. Dunno if they are state or federal programs, but right now one grant will pay $3k or so an acre, for you to plant or sprig grass and fertilize it to UGA specs, on former row crop land. The other grant will pay for cross fencing if the perimeter fence is up and you have at least 35 cows. This place already has the perimeter fence, and each 100 acre field and the dove field is fenced in. He would use the grant to cross-fence each 100 acre field...make them about 50 acres each. And, the Extension Service right now, will plant their newly developed World Feeder Bermuda and a hot-weather strain of Alfalfa they have developed. Both of these were developed more for grazing than hay. You just have to sign an agreement to send soil samples in yearly, and fertilize to specs. I was at a joint FFA and 4H meeting for all the schools last night, for Ag Day. I saw our Extension agent there, and asked him if he could find any info about blister beetles in this mix, and he said he would get back to me.

So, we were talking last night about filling that place up with Brahmas, and breeding Black Hereford buils to them. My client that bought the 80 Brahmas, had about 20 calves that were by Black Herefords. Someone already paid him for the black heifers and will get them in July at weaning. He has contracted to buy every black Herf heifer the man produced next year, which is one reason he wants about 50 more Brahma cows. He will use sexed semen on them. He already has AI'ed 20 of those 80 with Black hereFord. We can sell the heifers for $250 or more than the red or brindled sell for, and those black steers will sell better too.

BUT, we would be looking at buying $2500 Brahma cows vs $250 Corr cows. 10 to 1. And we'd have to vaccinate, worm, etc. And wean, then wait til they were yearlings to sell those heifers. We'd be getting $1500 to $2k each for them, but we could have gotten TEN $750 calves out of the 10 Corrs, and with no inputs. Having to rethink my own advice about NOT doing the Corr x Brangus thing with quality , improved pasture. We figured on the 400 acres, plus turning them on to the dove field after the season, we could run 300 Corrs without having to feed. $75k investment in cows, that would give us $225,000 worth of calves. We figured we could run 100 Brahmas on it, at a $250k investment, and unless we AI'd, we'd wean about 50 $750 steers and about 50 $1500 or so yearling heifers. If we did AI, there is that expense. but 100 even $2000 yearling heifers, would give us $200k out of $250k worth of cows vs $225k for the Brangus x Corr calves out of $75k worth of cows. And we'd have the AI and other inputs with those Brahmas. But, we don't know if the Corrs could wean a 500 lb calf, on that grass vs the 25% protein Kudzu. We might would have to give them protein tubs, too.

So, what would you do? Anybody? Y'all talk me into the Brahmas...I really want to see what we could do with them! :) and just last week, I said when I bought those 80- Brahmkas fopr Wayne I was DONE. Was gonna go fishing and take it easy after that!!! So much for that plan!!

Oh yeah, and $250k would max out the amount I could get on a corporate loan without co-signing, so that would be all the trading I could do for a year without using my money;.
 
Clearly getting Brahmas pencils out way better... you forgot to calculate in the cost of the gas masks though! ;)

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ZELP - Reduce methane emissions while improving animal welfare
How do you figure? I did this in my head, so I may have figured wrong. 100 Brahma cows for $250,000, that if we AI'd to sexed semen, we'd end up with 100 yearling heifers at $200k. minus the cost of AI,, vaccinations, worming etc. Or, 300 Corr cows for $75,000, and end up with 300 calves that will bring $225k at weaning in 6 months, and little to no inputs? Wjhat am I missing in the calculations? Granted, I'd only have to buy 100 masks with the Brahmas vs 300 masks with the Corrs! :) On the flip side it would be a hell of a lot easier to mask Corrs than Brahmas! LOL
 
I was just pullin' your leg... the Corrs makes more "sense" to me.... as long as you're not bringin' 'em north and hoping they'll overwinter! But you're right... I'd bet once you calculate in the cost of the gas masks, the Brahmans might come out ahead!
 
I was just pullin' your leg... the Corrs makes more "sense" to me.... as long as you're not bringin' 'em north and hoping they'll overwinter! But you're right... I'd bet once you calculate in the cost of the gas masks, the Brahmans might come out ahead!
Do you think that article you posted might could be from a spoof site? Surely, no one is this dumb for real!
We have a couple of years to decide. He is planting beans and peanuts this year, so it will be Jan or so of 2024 before they will sprig it. Then you have to let it sit a year after it starts growing in May, so it would be May of 2025 before we could put cows on it

Scott had a good idea about the 100 Brahmas or 300 Corr thing. He said " Lets do both! Buy 50 Brahmas and 150 Corrs! " So we put the math to it. 50 Brahmas will be $112,500. 150 Corrs will be about $45, 000. In 15 months we will have 150 calves that will sell for $112, 500. In 6 more months we will have 50 $2000 heifers (if we AI). So there is a $212,500 return of the original $157, 500 investment.

If we don't AI, then in 15 months we will have 175 calves that will bring $131, 250 and in six more months, about 25 $2000 heifers . So that would be $181,250 return on our $157, 500 investment.-

Either way, sounds like a lot more work!! But, I got help coming!! @50/50Farms is going to start raising these Corr x MFB heifers for us. Gonna carry him the heifers at weaning and he will breed them to a bull we will supply. when they are old enough, then we get 1/2 of them back. Take him 40 6mos old, and in 9 months get back 20. 50/50 keeps the other 20. It sure helps me to be able to keep my Corr heifers from getting bred by our Brangus bulls.
 
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Do you think that article you posted might could be from a spoof site? Surely, no one is this dumb for real!
Yeah, I thought the same thing immediately the first time I saw it... so I went to the B&MG website to check it out, as well as the Zelp site, along with some other "investigation".... sure looks to be "real" to me. So... just look around you... surely no one is so dumb that they're doing the stupid things that we all see around us or on the news every day too, right? Um, well, yeah, people really ARE that dumb apparently.
Scott had a good idea about the 100 Brahmas or 300 Corr thing. He said " Lets do both! Buy 50 Brahmas and 150 Corrs!

Either way, sounds like a lot more work!! But, I got help coming!! @50/50Farms is going to start raising these Corr x MFB heifers for us. Gonna carry him the heifers at weaning and he will breed them to a bull we will supply. when they are old enough, then we get 1/2 of them back. Take him 40 6mos old, and in 15 months get back 20. 50/50 keeps the other 20. It sure helps me to be able to keep my heifers from getting bred my our Brangus bulls.
If you're "wavering" between the two, the "do both" sounds like a GREAT solution that would give you the real answer to your question... and you'd prove to us all once and for all which way is "in the money"! KEEP US POSTED!

What you're suggesting with 50/50Farms is kind of how I got started back into cattle. I custom summer grazed nurse cows with dairy calves on 'em the first year. Cows were the bottom of his herd for production. He grafted the calves on, two per, and brought them to me. I carried 'em for the season, and got paid in half the calves. He bred the bottom of his herd and heifers to angus, since he didn't need that many replacements. I was able to trade B&W/dairy calves for dairy/beef crossbred heifer calves. And those became the "foundation" for my herd. I probably should have... or still should trade them out for some better beef genetics though. Really hard to put and keep the weight on those crossbreds through the winter with just grass/hay (no grain) vs. the full beef genetics.
 
Yeah, I thought the same thing immediately the first time I saw it... so I went to the B&MG website to check it out, as well as the Zelp site, along with some other "investigation".... sure looks to be "real" to me. So... just look around you... surely no one is so dumb that they're doing the stupid things that we all see around us or on the news every day too, right? Um, well, yeah, people really ARE that dumb apparently.

If you're "wavering" between the two, the "do both" sounds like a GREAT solution that would give you the real answer to your question... and you'd prove to us all once and for all which way is "in the money"! KEEP US POSTED!

What you're suggesting with 50/50Farms is kind of how I got started back into cattle. I custom summer grazed nurse cows with dairy calves on 'em the first year. Cows were the bottom of his herd for production. He grafted the calves on, two per, and brought them to me. I carried 'em for the season, and got paid in half the calves. He bred the bottom of his herd and heifers to angus, since he didn't need that many replacements. I was able to trade B&W/dairy calves for dairy/beef crossbred heifer calves. And those became the "foundation" for my herd. I probably should have... or still should trade them out for some better beef genetics though. Really hard to put and keep the weight on those crossbreds through the winter with just grass/hay (no grain) vs. the full beef genetics.
Yep. I have been talking with @50/50Farms for a while now. He is young, but wise beyond his years. Has a lot of experience with both cattle and horses. Best of all, he is just "eat up" with common sense. He has a young family, doesn't have a family cattle operation to inherit, just some un-improved land to fence in. It is hard to start from scratch in today's economy. Scott and I are on the home stretch, getting closer and closer to the finish line. Yes, we make money doing this, and here lately things have fallen in place and we have made GOBS. No, we don't know every thing about it, but we have learned a LOT over the years of doing this. Mostly from mistakes that costed us money. If we can help someone else avoid some of the mistakes we have made, and thus help them to not lose money from those mistakes, then we will have hit a home run at our last at bat.
I learned a lot in my youth, and I wasn't as sharp as 50/50. Most of it from the "pinhookers" as y'all call them. People took me under their wing, and the older I get and think back, the more I realize they helped me make money and they took less, when they very easily could have made a lot more by taking advantage of my inexperience. So, I kinda want to pay it forward.
 
Yep. I have been talking with @50/50Farms for a while now. He is young, but wise beyond his years. Has a lot of experience with both cattle and horses. Best of all, he is just "eat up" with common sense. He has a young family, doesn't have a family cattle operation to inherit, just some un-improved land to fence in.
Thanks, Warren. Would have had the cattle and the land if it weren't for Parkinson's Dementia. Better part of 20 years of joint effort gone over a summer and some change. Wouldn't have to re-do so much fence either if other people had been worth more while I was away. You win some, you lose some. I don't mind losing if I'm learning.
 
I like Kudzu pasture. If someone could take the climbing gene out of it it would not cover everything and could probably replace alfala.

I thought this gas mask thing was a joke like something on The Onion news.
But it's not :) So I emailed them and asked how do you keep cows from rubbing them off?https://www.zelp.co/
 
Sounds like a great "partnership". Kudos to both of you!
Yup, Just got off the phone with him. It will be June before his fencing is complete, and July before I send the first heifers. So, this week end I am going to fill the bed of my truck up with Kudzu sprigs (I will get Zeke to do this. It won't take him long.) and take them to @50/50Farms. He should have plenty of free hjgh-protein forage before the heifers get there!
 
If you're "wavering" between the two, the "do both" sounds like a GREAT solution that would give you the real answer to your question... and you'd prove to us all once and for all which way is "in the money"! KEEP US POSTED!
Something I thought of last night, was that if we do the Brahma thing, we will have to build a pole barn and some working facilities in it, especially if we decide to AI. We would need electricity and water in it, tool When we put electricity in the pole barn at the Kudzu place, it cost us a couple grand to get power to the barn. and the electric lines ran on that side of the road. Our fence and the back of the barn is maybe 50 feet off the right of way. Over there where we'd run the Brahmas, the power would have to cross the road and the creek that runs beside it, so no telling what that would cost. We could pump water from the creek, but if we want potable water, we'd have to drill a well. The one we drilled by the Kudzu place pole barn cost $7300. We put the well in at the barn on the Kudzu place, because of the dove shoot. We could have pumped out of the creek or the pond there, if we didn't need potable water for drinking water, cooking, washing up etc.

It looks like we would be in the full-blown, for real cattle business if we did the Brahmas, something I was not looking to do at this stage of my life, and living 3 hours away. We would still get the grant for cross-fencing, the grant for seed, fertilizer etc, and if the UGA program for the World Feeder/Alfalfa test fields is still active, those seeds would be free as well, even if we went all Corriente. If we did do all Corrs, all we'd need is a corral, and we probably have enough posts, panels, gates, etc, lying around to do that now. If we did the 300 Corrs over there, with the 112 we have now across the road, we'd be looking at 412, $750 black calves at weaning time. Since we decided on year round calving that would give us a average of 34 calves per month to sell for about $25k average per month, Not a bad retirement plan! LOL And no work except for tagging and castrating at birth, then loading calves once a month to go to the sale.
Yet every night this week, I have gone to sleep envisioning 50 $2k f1 Black Braford heifers waiting on their new owner to come pick them up. :)_
 
Something I thought of last night, was that if we do the Brahma thing, we will have to build a pole barn and some working facilities in it, especially if we decide to AI. We would need electricity and water in it, tool When we put electricity in the pole barn at the Kudzu place, it cost us a couple grand to get power to the barn. and the electric lines ran on that side of the road. Our fence and the back of the barn is maybe 50 feet off the right of way. Over there where we'd run the Brahmas, the power would have to cross the road and the creek that runs beside it, so no telling what that would cost. We could pump water from the creek, but if we want potable water, we'd have to drill a well. The one we drilled by the Kudzu place pole barn cost $7300. We put the well in at the barn on the Kudzu place, because of the dove shoot. We could have pumped out of the creek or the pond there, if we didn't need potable water for drinking water, cooking, washing up etc.

It looks like we would be in the full-blown, for real cattle business if we did the Brahmas, something I was not looking to do at this stage of my life, and living 3 hours away. We would still get the grant for cross-fencing, the grant for seed, fertilizer etc, and if the UGA program for the World Feeder/Alfalfa test fields is still active, those seeds would be free as well, even if we went all Corriente. If we did do all Corrs, all we'd need is a corral, and we probably have enough posts, panels, gates, etc, lying around to do that now. If we did the 300 Corrs over there, with the 112 we have now across the road, we'd be looking at 412, $750 black calves at weaning time. Since we decided on year round calving that would give us a average of 34 calves per month to sell for about $25k average per month, Not a bad retirement plan! LOL And no work except for tagging and castrating at birth, then loading calves once a month to go to the sale.
Yet every night this week, I have gone to sleep envisioning 50 $2k f1 Black Braford heifers waiting on their new owner to come pick them up. :)_
What about a left-seat right-seat phase on/out based on stocking, reducing, and re-stocking? Your rise over run with the corrs is good enough that you could use those pretty months of good sales to bleed into to what you'd also like to do with the brahmas and it really wouldn't take a whole hell of a lot longer to piece work it than it would to try and hit it all at one lick, with the added benefit being that you wouldn't kill yourself doing it. I know you redlined pretty hard when y'all went to El Paso, for many it really only gets easier to wear out like that as time goes on.
 
What about a left-seat right-seat phase on/out based on stocking, reducing, and re-stocking? Your rise over run with the corrs is good enough that you could use those pretty months of good sales to bleed into to what you'd also like to do with the brahmas and it really wouldn't take a whole hell of a lot longer to piece work it than it would to try and hit it all at one lick, with the added benefit being that you wouldn't kill yourself doing it. I know you redlined pretty hard when y'all went to El Paso, for many it really only gets easier to wear out like that as time goes on.
Well, it will be 2025 before we could put cattle on it, unless we did the WordFeeder/Alfalfa thing on 200 acres, and sowed the other 200 in Alicia. With the cross fencing grant, we will end up with eight 50 acre pastures, so plenty of ways to rotate and not stress the Alicia out too much. But, Scott owns that 450 acres. We both bought the Kudzu place about 45 years, and we own 50% each. Well, 50% of the stock each in the S Corpo that we have it in. We have buy-sell agreement that Is insured to fund it on the first person's death. But, at Scott's place, if we did the Brama thing, I could easily have $50k or more in the infra structure, and no recourse if something happened to Scott. I am 66 and he is 67. And if something happened to me, my heirs would have no interest in that place, except for 50% of the cattle we will buy through the corporation. Scott would have to build the barn and working faciklties, and run the power and water on his own. What we would have to do, is let our corporation buy the cattle and pay the inputs, and rent the 400 acres, barns, etc, from Scott. Rent for pasture is usually $10/acre. so the corp would pay him $4k a year. And I would loan him half the money for the infrastructure, and he would pay me back at a scheduled amount each year. Way more complicated, than turning a herd of Corrs onto the place, and just collecting money when we sold calves.

What I wish, is that you and Clay , @Sthrncwboy , would both move down there, and we'd sell out the whole thing, and let y'all make payments every year after you sold calves! Set the payments at a small precent of the profits plus 4-5% interest or something. We could go ahead and buy that $125k worth of Brahmas, and just roll it into the note. We'd keep the 50 acre dove field, and still have the meals on opening weekend at the Kudzu place, and keep our horses and mules in the corral during hunting season, Nov- Feb. So, We'd rent y'all that 220 acres for just a $1 a year. :)
 
What I wish, is that you and Clay , @Sthrncwboy , would both move down there, and we'd sell out the whole thing, and let y'all make payments every year after you sold calves! Set the payments at a small precent of the profits plus 4-5% interest or something. We could go ahead and buy that $125k worth of Brahmas, and just roll it into the note. We'd keep the 50 acre dove field, and still have the meals on opening weekend at the Kudzu place, and keep our horses and mules in the corral during hunting season, Nov- Feb. So, We'd rent y'all that 220 acres for just a $1 a year. :)
Hell, Warren, ain't it flat down there? My doctor says if I don't have a mountain or at least a hill close by that'll let me see at least a mile that I'll drop dead from the flatlander blues.

In all seriousness, I am honored every time we talk business and I might just think on that at some point as our other deal goes forward.
 
Hell, Warren, ain't it flat down there? My doctor says if I don't have a mountain or at least a hill close by that'll let me see at least a mile that I'll drop dead from the flatlander blues.

In all seriousness, I am honored every time we talk business and I might just think on that at some point as our other deal goes forward.
The Kudzu place does run up hill from the road, a little. The row crop land across the road is flat and level as a concrete pad.

OK. I am headed down there to spend the night. We are going to start filling the truck with Kudzu sprigs at daylight, tarp in down , and head your way! Over and out!
 
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