Unusual bull selection process

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HOSS

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While down at the sale barn today I eavesdropped on an odd conversation taking place between 3 farmers sitting in front of me. One guy ran about 25 head of red and black angus cows and about 5 holstien cows. He was there to buy a bull (I know bad idea). Anywaythere were a few decent bulls, phenotypically, to go through but he was refusing to bid. Everytime a decent bull would come in he would tell his companions that he did not want that bull because it was not tall enough to breed his holstien cows. The bulls were probably 2 years old and decent framed but not exceptionally tall. More normal for angus bulls in my opinion. He finally bid on and bought a big, long legged, very tall and rangy black bull that looked to be fairly aged for a commercial bull. He had a big ol' pallet head, pinched heart girth, funnel but and a loose sheath. The only positive attributes of the bull was that he was long and seemed fairly docile. I almost couldn't believe what he was telling his companions. He did not want to buy the younger, shorter bulls because he thought that they would have problems trying to breed the holstiens. He basically bought an inferior bull because he had 5 holstiens in his herd. I don't guess he thought about the other 25 inferior calves that he would have.
 

DOC HARRIS

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This is one reason that we have 'cow-freshener' cattle owners who don't have clue #1 about what the hay-bale they are doing! Then, in a couple of years or so, they will take the progeny of those slab-sided, funnel-butted, pinch-hearted, cow-hocked, colorful money-wasters to the same sale barn, lose money on them, and biatch about their neighbors not knowing squat-doodley about beef cattle, - - and that he didn't like the sire "..a dem hay belly's when they was 'forced on me' here two years ago!" - and it is always somebody elses fault that the market is always wrong when he brings good stuff to sell!

Try to explain EPD's to them, and listen to the song that they sing then!!

The same song is sung every year, and then they belly-ache about their taxes going to Experiment Stations that try to help people like him understand the ABC's of how to breed a cow!

Cut Me Some Slack!

DOC HARRIS
 

blackcowz

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DOC HARRIS":18hqwcrd said:
This is one reason that we have 'cow-freshener' cattle owners who don't have clue #1 about what the hay-bale they are doing! Then, in a couple of years or so, they will take the progeny of those slab-sided, funnel-butted, pinch-hearted, cow-hocked, colorful money-wasters to the same sale barn, lose money on them, and biatch about their neighbors not knowing squat-doodley about beef cattle, - - and that he didn't like the sire "..a dem hay belly's when they was 'forced on me' here two years ago!" - and it is always somebody elses fault that the market is always wrong when he brings good stuff to sell!

Try to explain EPD's to them, and listen to the song that they sing then!!

The same song is sung every year, and then they belly-ache about their taxes going to Experiment Stations that try to help people like him understand the ABC's of how to breed a cow!

Cut Me Some Slack!

DOC HARRIS
DOC, easy!!!! Same goes with our renter who owns 4 horses but doesn't know squat-didly 'bout 'em. Try to talk sense to her and this is her expression. :? Oh well, some jus won't listen. I try to listen to other ideas and techniques and so far, it has paid off!
 

pdfangus

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Like Doc expressed.

There are some who want to learn ......

and others who already know it all.

I try to teach those who seek. :cowboy:
 

jcarkie

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or they want a five hundred dollar bull, because "prices are just to high"," won't pay that much for a bull", "papers don't matter when you sell". then wonder why their calves don't bring top dollar.
 

TexasBred

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Hey...the guy just needs a new bull...the old bull probably has 3 or 4 generations of offspring in the pasture and they too are all bred to him. First class operation.
 

alacattleman

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TexasBred":25b0efmw said:
Hey...the guy just needs a new bull...the old bull probably has 3 or 4 generations of offspring in the pasture and they too are all bred to him. First class operation.
he aint by himself.. unfortunitly this way of thinking,is pretty common. some aint gonna do any different some get by with dumb luck... but change their way of operating if,they want too. want be just any body, but the one that hit him where it hurts,, or send his calves back home with him
 

mnmtranching

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Lets just hope the guy gets lucky and the bull dies before it gets a chance to breed. Then again if that's what he looks for in a bull there's little hope.
 

alacattleman

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mnmtranching":2cj17hpf said:
Lets just hope the guy gets lucky and the bull dies before it gets a chance to breed. Then again if that's what he looks for in a bull there's little hope.
id almost bet he takes him home and turns him out, without the first thought of diesease, that he may have picked up at the barn..... course its gonna start to rain in a few days ,and he can always blame the deaths on lighting strikes.
 

1982vett

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mnmtranching":11ffa1sf said:
Lets just hope the guy gets lucky and the bull dies before it gets a chance to breed. Then again if that's what he looks for in a bull there's little hope.
Someone has to raise those knot-headed scruby cattle. Helps to make mine look pretty good.
 

mnmtranching

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Just another thought that came to mind. Probably nonsense. :cowboy:


Say the old guy REALLY knows his cattle.

You know? That bull out there breeding cows. eating not enough poor feed. He will have the same genetics as his brother down the road that is pampered, not working hard, on the best of rations. Fat and sleek, You know what? nothing but praise from us.

Just a thought.
 

alacattleman

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mnmtranching":wtw7mhpt said:
Just another thought that came to mind. Probably nonsense. :cowboy:


Say the old guy REALLY knows his cattle.

You know? That bull out there breeding cows. eating not enough poor feed. He will have the same genetics as his brother down the road that is pampered, not working hard, on the best of rations. Fat and sleek, You know what? nothing but praise from us.

Just a thought.
then we ought too be able too tell if he really knows his business....by what they produce, if he can produce deep soggy calves with the information hoss has gave us, then my hats off too him.
 

iowahawkeyes

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Same goes with our renter who owns 4 horses but doesn't know squat-didly 'bout 'em. Try to talk sense to her and this is her expression. :? Oh well, some jus won't listen. I try to listen to other ideas and techniques and so far, it has paid off![/quote]

That goes for a vast majority of horse owners around here. "let's get a pet for the kids! What fun!"
 

angusbreederms

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What gets me is when you try to sell a bull to a potential buyer and he says… “I can buy that same bull at the sale barn for half that price.” I start my breeding age bulls at $2,000. Some of my buyers don’t fully understand what they are getting for that small investment. They are buying into a program with proven genetics, all performance data recorded, two years of developing, vaccinating, deworming, etc. I would dare to say most buyers who purchase a bull from a sale barn know very little to nothing about him. How do they expect to run a successful business if they don’t know their product?
 

spoon

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This reminds me of a guy at work. He priced some Limi bulls from a local breeder. They wanted $1,200 for the cheapest bull they had. He came to work talking about how the breeder was crazy wanting that much money for a bull. He said he could buy one just as good at the livestock market. A couple of weeks later he bought a whitish femine small framed bull that the man told him was a Charolais for $500. I don't know a lot about bulls but this is a sorry looking critter. I can't wait to see what the calves he throws looks like. :roll:
 

Alberta farmer

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Now personally I wouldn't buy a bull at the sale barn, or a cow for that matter. Just don't want to bring a bunch of problems home with me. However, quite often you do see some pretty good bulls going through the ring?
I'm not a big fan of EPDs. I'll sure look at them if the breeder has them but am more interested in seeing the bulls momma, siblings, and herd mates. I am also interested in how he was raised and the character of the guy who is selling him.
I think price is important but at the end of the day it is what that bull can do for you? If he costs a few extra bucks but adds more pounds then he is worth it? I don't want to pay for extra lard, or a free hat, or a bunch of ribbons at a show. I want a good functional bull that isn't going to give me any grief and will give me a good saleable product. I don't think $2000-$3000 is unreasonable for a good yearling bull...if he adds to my bottom line!
The breeder I have been buying from raises functional cattle that tough it out like a commercial herd. He lives close to me and I see his cows out in the pasture year round. They swath graze until mid January. Quite frankly they are about the best cows in the county. He doesn't play the show game. He buys top bulls or AI's to top genetics. He stands by his product and he isn't a liar. He sells everything private treaty and he doesn't grease his bulls. He doesn't have to advertize...he sells to pretty well a repeat customer base...because his cattle work.
 

dyates

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I don't think I would ever buy a bull at the salebarn, but this guy will probably get lucky. Most bulls don't have a chance to get old by being sorry. Somebody, somewhere liked him well enough to keep him around for a while. Sounded like the guy had older cows and wasn't worried about CE. Not saying I approve, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.
 

alacattleman

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dyates":2qaiqgzs said:
I don't think I would ever buy a bull at the salebarn, but this guy will probably get lucky. Most bulls don't have a chance to get old by being sorry. Somebody, somewhere liked him well enough to keep him around for a while. Sounded like the guy had older cows and wasn't worried about CE. Not saying I approve, but even a broken clock is right twice a day.
i wouldnt personally recommend someone too buy at the stock yard epecially a newbe ................but one of the best bulls i ever bought came from there..... three reg. yearling simmental brothers just happen too be there that day
 
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