Untrained stud, and Stubborn gelding

[TnWI]

OK horsepeople - I need some advice - situation #1: 4 yr old stud, never broke, never haltered, doesn't care for people, and is currently in a pen by himself so he gets to wanting some type of attention from humans. Using him as a stud isn't the answer - the main goal is to get him castrated, and use him as a trail horse someday. He is gorgeous - but at this rate, gorgeous doesn't cut it. We want a horse that will ride. Where do I go from here??

Situation #2 - horse refuses to go forward. He is a complete joy to work with on the ground - he stands, halters, saddles, leads, lets you mount, will allow someone on his back while being lead - but once that lead rope is off, he plants his butt and pretty much says "I don't think so", even using a whip. I am stumped!

 

[Suzie Q]

From you asking about situation 2, I would say don't go into Situation 1. You need to learn from a lot of horses (years) before taking on a youngster.

Situation #2. He has been taught to walk froward with someone on the ground. The person leaves and he is at a loss. Using a whip means what? He can feel a fly on his skin, he does not need an aid harder than this, if he doesn't know what a whip means using it harder is the same as yelling at someone in English who doesn't understand English.

Both situations you are better off with a good instructor. For situation 2 I would say teach to lunge. Teach word commands. Then have a good rider who can apply the correct aids with the word commands and as the horse learns the aids the voice is no longer needed. JMHO.

 

[TnWI]

On situation #1 - I agree whole heartedly and have no intention of even trying to get on board. I was kind of hoping for some helpful hints as far as how to get him calmed down enough to see that humans are good, not evil. As far as #2 - he has been ridden before, he lunges, understands the basic commands - he even will move out on his own for a short bit, but just shuts down and wants to go by the other horses in the pasture. He is "pasture sore" - but I am wondering how to get him past all this and become the great trail horse I know he can be. You might be right, and a trainer might be the answer - I was just trying to avoid that route. Thank you for answering!

 

[Farmerjon]

First of all, both horses have had it easy, they know where easy is (the pasture).
On the stud. Sounds severe, but you have to become his everything. Food, water, etc. So, no free choice anything. You bring the bucket of water, if he won't drink out of it in your hands, go back in 6 hours. Continue, he will eventually drink. Same with food. Get him able to be lead and tied before cutting. When you get him cut, get him home, saddle him and get someone on him (he can't buck hard, those muscles won't work for a few days). By the time he heals, you have enough hours on him that he takes it in stride and is over the desire to buck.
Gelding needs a second horse to follow. He needs to stay in another dry lot away from the stud so he doesn't buddy up with him. But he is just dumb. Afraid to go out on his own. Get another person to ride with you, eventually he will ride alongside and then eventually in front and be the leader. Takes wet saddle blankets.

 

[TnWI]

What do you mean, "takes wet saddle blankets"? And thank you for the advice - You are right, they do know they have it good. I was able to get #1 into a pen by himself, but he has free water and hay. We will change that up a bit And I'll work on #2 - he is such a great horse - I know he will do just fine. thanks again!

 

[Suzie Q]

Wet saddle blankets means that you have ridden him long enough for him to sweat. Not sweat from fear, sweat from work and each day you ride they get fitter so it takes longer for them to sweat. It just means many hours in the saddle the same as I said it takes riding for years before you take on a young untrained horse.

Whenever you interact with a horse you are training it. There is no just giving it water or giving it hay. You are training it. If you don't know what you are doing you will train the bad habits like biting kicking, rearing, etc.

This is because horses learn extremely fast. Much faster than humans and it is easier to train a horse than it is to retrain a horse.

So if you train the bad habits when you interact with the stud it will be harder for the trainer you get to retrain the bad habits out of him.

Where you stand, what you do, how you give food or water all comes down to training. Whatever method you use timing is everything. Get the timing wrong and you will teach the horse the opposite of what you wish to teach.

I don't know if you can get it over there but I recommend John Chatterton's 10 Commandments to read. I think you will enjoy reading it.

 

[TnWI]

Thanks for explaining SuzieQ. I thought that is what it meant but I hate to assume anything This isn't my first horse, nor will it be the last - I just have never had these types of issues. I managed to win over #1's pasture partner a while ago - but #1 is different. I'll try the advice - thanks again!

 

[msscamp]

OK horsepeople - I need some advice - situation #1: 4 yr old stud, never broke, never haltered, doesn't care for people, and is currently in a pen by himself so he gets to wanting some type of attention from humans. Using him as a stud isn't the answer - the main goal is to get him castrated, and use him as a trail horse someday. He is gorgeous - but at this rate, gorgeous doesn't cut it. We want a horse that will ride. Where do I go from here??

Situation #2 - horse refuses to go forward. He is a complete joy to work with on the ground - he stands, halters, saddles, leads, lets you mount, will allow someone on his back while being lead - but once that lead rope is off, he plants his butt and pretty much says "I don't think so", even using a whip. I am stumped!

Situation #1 - I know that making him totally dependent on you will do what you want, but I'm not sure I agree with that approach because it can back fire under some circumstances and it does not really build trust. I think I would approach this from a different angle. I believe I would spend as much time as humanly possible with him. Talk to him, read to him, get him used to your voice and presence. He will become curious and check you out. Let him as long as he isn't aggressive about it. The simple act of feeding him will help you to build trust, so take it a bit farther each day and see if he will take a bite or two of hay from your hand. Put a goody in his feeder now and then and, after a few times, see if he will take it from your hand. He has learned to not trust or like people, and you have to "unlearn" his dislike and mistrust of people. You also need to realize that castrating him at 4 years of age will not eliminate all of his stud behaviour, so keep that in mind while you are working with him and when he is around other horses.

Situation #2 - Start from the beginning. This is a learned behaviour that you will have to "unlearn" and re-teach appropriate behaviour. Approach this horse as if he was an unbroke horse and go from there.