Unexplained down cows

[DallyCash]

This is going to be long sorry!
Monday night I started feeding Corid to treat for Coccidia (our bull had lots of it). Was feeding 1200# bred cows (due any day and next month) 1# per head. Wednesday (last night) put out 2 bales of sedan, 1 hay, 1 milo stalks (our norm is 1 of each). This morning about 9, went to check for calves and had a 10 year old cow (due next month) down and couldn't get up. Back end seemed weak, couldn't get hooves on the ground to push up, they kept curling up on her. Vet came out, pulled blood but was assuming a back injury. Blood work came back neg. Checked Calcium and Mag levels, RBCs and WBCs. again chalking it up to an injury as gums and such were pink and moist, cow was alert and trying her dangdest to get up.

all cows were fine from 5 to 630pm, gave more Corid, left for work and meetings.

husband checked on them again at 915, another 10 year old cow down. same symptoms. She however is due Feb 14th. Called back up vet (same practice, she heads out and lets vet #1 know whats going on). I remind husband that I've been feeding Corid. He calls vet again she said they can have a reaction to the Corid, she would grab the antidote and be right out.

So now we are hoping it was the Corid. obviously wont be feeding that any more. anybody have any other ideas? I placed a call to K-State yesterday about sending them samples to test for the big minerals (Copper, Selenium, Zinc). He will call me back Friday am about pricing and how many cows to sample.

Shoot me some other ideas!!!

 

[Son of Butch]

Seems you're on top of it, nothing I can add.

 

[regolith]

Was the blood test for calcium/mag definitely taken *before* administration of either mineral?
On those symptoms, plus the age of the cows, it's hard to rule out the possibility that one or both of those minerals are implicated.

I'm rather curious about the fact that, presuming you have a mix of ages in the herd and most are a lot younger than nine, your downers are both 10 years. Doesn't mean it has to be milk fever, but it does make it more likely that your older cows are less capable of coping with their current life challenges - whether it's nutrition, weather, disease. Bit like the canary taken into the mine, they can be an indicator of a bigger problem.

 

[Nesikep]

BrangusCowgirl said she had a similar paralysis and it was caused by a selenium deficiency.. I've never seen it manifest that way in older cows personally, but a shot of Selenium/BoSe/MuSe would be my next thing to try

 

[DallyCash]

We didn't administer any Calcium or Mag. The first cow down was given Flunixin (I believe), after the 2nd cow went down, the other vet decided that maybe they ate too much of the Corid. So she started them on Thiamine Hydrochloride, 20cc twice a day. She said they can have that for the next couple of days. We gave Dexamethasone to the cow that's due on sunday, I'm not sure if it was the right thing to due... just don't know what else to do. Both vets are convinced that its not a mineral issue seeing as how they went down 12 hours apart, why would it hit both at the same time? however, if they are both still down on Monday, they will be having a full blood panel done, even if I bleed them myself and drive it to Manhattan. Took in poop samples, both were fine, had a few strongyles and haemonchus worms, but not many, no coccidia.

 

[branguscowgirl]

I agree with Nesi.
Selenium deficiency is the first thought for me. Exactly what mine acted like. If you are in a Selenium deficient area and not using high Selenium minerals, boluses, and shots, it could be your problem. Draw the blood, then give a good dose of Muse, Bose, or multimin. 2 cows with back injuries at the same time isn't likely unless they were fighting with each other. (And still kind of a stretch IMO.)
You can read my post in "Surprise Diagnosis, Finally".

 

[DallyCash]

Oh I took a video of one of the cows trying to stand, if anybody wants to see it. I don't know how to post pictures on here so I will need some help.

Brangus, is the Muse or Buse by script or over the counter? I think I will need to wait till Monday to get the blood panel...

 

[branguscowgirl]

Just read your follow up post. It can certainly happen to one or two in the herd, same time or not at the same time. Still sounds like white muscle disease to me.
The good part is, if it is Selenium deficiency you can turn it around quickly.

 

[branguscowgirl]

It is all prescription. Are you a Selenium deficient area? If so, Get a hold of the vet that was out and get some in one of them ASAP. You will know with in 48 hrs or so if that is going to do it.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Just read your follow up post. It can certainly happen to one or two in the herd, same time or not at the same time. Still sounds like white muscle disease to me.
The good part is, if it is Selenium deficiency you can turn it around quickly.

I agree. Even if that's not the case the shot is not gonna hurt them. Give ASAP and get them on their feet soon.

 

[branguscowgirl]

http://cancergrace.org/wp-content/uploa ... um-map.jpg
This is a very general map. More detailed ones can be found also.

 

[Lucky_P]

Check nitrate levels in the sudan and milo. If high, that could cause cows to go down. I'm doubting that it's the Corid.

But...the most common things happen most commonly...
Not having seen the cows or the situation, I'm not saying that this is the case, but it sounds like what I see almost every winter... and I have been seeing these cases rolling in to the diagnostic lab in just the past week or so... I could be wrong, but here goes...

Cows - usually older - toughing it through the winter on poor quality hay and nothing else, either with a big calf in them or at side... going down... dying despite attempts at 'treatment'. What I see at the lab is a cow at BCS 1.5-2.0, with total depletion of body fat stores and a rumen full of hay - that often 'looks' OK, but if you test forage quality, it may have crude protein down around 2-3 and TDN well below 30. If it's even a moderately tough winter, they can't eat or digest enough of that stuff to survive, even if they have all that they can eat in front of them at all times.

Producers often don't 'see' it. They're putting out hay, and counting heads, but not really LOOKING at the cows. I know, I've been that person. A belly distended with poor quality hay is not the same as a well-conditioned cow with full rumen; you can tell the difference if you look.
What I don't understand is veterinarians who see these cases and are afraid to say, "John/Jane, your cows are malnourished. we need to examine your feeding program and make adjustments for stage of production and weather conditions." I guess they're afraid that the client will get mad at them, as if they were suggesting that they're purposely starving the cattle to death.
It's all well and good to check Ca/Mg and micronutrient levels,and explore toxic possibilities... they do occur... but sometimes the answer is right there in plain sight.

Older veterinarians whom I know say "February breaks 'em, March takes 'em" ... and unfortunately its all too often true. These ol' gals will often tough it out and 'run out of gas' with green grass and warm weather just over the next little hill.

The fact that your mature bull is having clinical coccidiosis suggests to me that something is amiss from a nutritional standpoint.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Good post LuckyP

 

[DallyCash]

Both girls are up this morning!!! Woo hoo!!!!
Lucky P what you said totally makes since, and to be honest when my father in laws get 8/9 months bred, I won't be surprised at all if they start going down, sadly. And my husband and I believe that is where our bull picked up the coccidia. Our cows share an electric fence line wit his.
I believe that ours could be a touch on the light side but both vets say they are fine. Our cows always seem to light muscled in the hip/thigh area. Even fat on grass, they don't have much muscle there.
We dont hay test, although we have talked about starting to. We typically test the Sudan before we bale it (my husband is adamant about it). They also receive moormans roughage buster cut with salt, basically fee choice.
Whatever the reason they went down (its hard for me to believe the corid too, shoot I was only putting out 16# for 16 head) it seems the thiamine helped. We leared a lot, mainly that we don't ever want to do that again! haha thanks for the suggestions and tips. And I still would like to get blood panels done

 

[branguscowgirl]

DailyCash that is great news! :clap:
I am also betting that this is nutritional. Whether their Se is low.....or not. But I would still not be surprised if it is what has caused the muscle wasting and weakness.

 

[Nesikep]

From what I read about Coccidia, there's several strains, and they're pretty natural for a cow to have in the gut, but the problem is when they get weak they can't keep the population in control and you have an growth explosion of them, causing the clinical effects... LuckyP can perhaps confirm that for me.

 

[Lucky_P]

That's good news! Glad to hear it!