Twin question

[mdmdogs3]

We were discussing twins & freemartins at dinner tonite -

My dad remembers being told to not keep any twin for a replacement heifer or for a bull - regardless of the sex of the other twin

what are your opinions on this policy

 

[dun]

Nothing wrong with it. Except, twins are harder on the cow to raise and breed back, from what I've sen the majority of the time only one twin survives. They'll be smaller as weanlings and yearlings but will catch up by calving time as 2 year olds. But, they heifers will have a higher tendncy to tein and the bulls daughters will have the same possibilities. My old mentor never kept a cow that twinned or a heifer that was a twin. It was a dairy, but he mantained that over the years they would milk heavier the year they twinned but the production would steadily decline to below their potential and wouldn;t get back to their pre-twinning production. While that may not be as much of a problem with beef cows, if you're pushing the cows to raise a heavy calf, that decline in production might hurt in the long run.

dun

 

[novaman]

Nothing wrong with it. Except, twins are harder on the cow to raise and breed back, from what I've sen the majority of the time only one twin survives. They'll be smaller as weanlings and yearlings but will catch up by calving time as 2 year olds. But, they heifers will have a higher tendncy to tein and the bulls daughters will have the same possibilities. My old mentor never kept a cow that twinned or a heifer that was a twin. It was a dairy, but he mantained that over the years they would milk heavier the year they twinned but the production would steadily decline to below their potential and wouldn;t get back to their pre-twinning production. While that may not be as much of a problem with beef cows, if you're pushing the cows to raise a heavy calf, that decline in production might hurt in the long run.

dun

Are you saying that if a cow ever had twins he sent them down the road?

 

[dun]

That is correct. And after 60 some odd years in the business he only had twins once in every 5 years or so. But he was an old man with no book learning, just years and years of practical experience.

dun

 

[novaman]

I'm failing to understand why a cow that has had twins would be frowned upon.

 

[dun]

I'm failing to understand why a cow that has had twins would be frowned upon.

Reread this part

It was a dairy, but he mantained that over the years they would milk heavier the year they twinned but the production would steadily decline to below their potential and wouldn;t get back to their pre-twinning production. While that may not be as much of a problem with beef cows, if you're pushing the cows to raise a heavy calf, that decline in production might hurt in the long run.

 

[Beefy]

ive also noticed that cows that twin never really live up to expectations, with the twins or calves that follow. cant really explain it, luckily we rarely have them.

 

[novaman]

I realize that in a dairy the situation would be different. However, in a beef situation that seems absurd. If the bottom line is production why wouldn't you want to have two calves from one cow? We have a couple sets of twins every year and they grow just as well as any other calves.

 

[dun]

I realize that in a dairy the situation would be different. However, in a beef situation that seems absurd. If the bottom line is production why wouldn't you want to have two calves from one cow? We have a couple sets of twins every year and they grow just as well as any other calves.

The preference for twins is pretty much in the minority of the people I know and have known over the years. Without supplements it's pretty tough for a cow to feed 2 calves to 650 lb weaning

dun

 

[novaman]

If your worried about the cow supporting two calves than why not pull one calf off and feed it. Around here you can sell a baby calf for 300 bucks at calving time. There are plenty of options.

 

[Beef11]

If a cow weans 1 at 650 or 2 at 450 i wouldnt frown at either. In my experience we calved 100 cows in 3 weeks had 2 retained placentas both cows had twins both didnt breed back. but both raised calves to fair weight.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I HATE TWINS!!! Hmmm, some of you may have heard me say that before!!!
First, a cow carrying twins - GENERALLY is thinner at calving, retains placenta, calves get twisted up at birth ending up breaking the umbilical cord killing one or both, you have to untangle mess & pull calves, even if not twisted up they are generally upside down/backwards needing assistance. Even is BOTH are born alive unassisted, it is hard on the cow to recycle back for rebreeding.
Yes, two 450# calves outperform one 650# calf as far as selling them. But, your cow PROBABLY won't be calving next year in your 60 day calving season, and if she is, she is in poor condition through next year's calvings season. Unless of course you only have a handful of pets & you can afford to feed the heck out of the cow & her calves.
There are always exceptions. Right now I have a cow that spit out live twins two years in a row, no retained placenta, bred back both years & keeps her condition. First set, one calf died at about 2 months of age. Second set, she raised both HEIFERS. One was actually almost normal size at weaning the other 200# lighter. Retained both. Small one is catching up.
My breed has more % of twins than any other breed - VERY prolific - about 13% - normal is 8% in beef cows.
I don't cull based on twinning (calves or cows) - although they ususally end up culling themselves by not fitting our management practices (breeding back in our 60 day calving season - or the calf not being big enough to breed during our breeding season).
As far as the QUALITY of the twin, if they are grown out to be normal size by breeding, they should be as good as their contemporaries.
Supposedly a bull born twin to a heifer has lower sperm performance - but I don't know that for fact. Does make sense when you see what it can do to the female born twin to a bull.
Still - I HATE TWINS!!!

 

[WarriorPatriot]

Our twin Holstein heifer and bull are coming along fine, weve fed them since day one (Nicely bred quality Holsteins ) and they are fine they are both at a huge size right now. The bull, now a steer, is going to be dinner when he's older and his sister will be AI, if she doesnt cary oh well. I see nothing really wrong with twins, pull them from the heifer and bottle feed them, get them along and they're fine.

 

[dun]

pull them from the heifer and bottle feed them, get them along and they're fine.

I guess I have the wrong idea, I thought it was the cows job to raise the calves, not me.

dun

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes, I've been known to SELL a twin but not bottle it myself. No way. I do like to keep them around until after I've calved out the other cows - just in case of a lost calf - than I would splice the twin on the cow that lost her calf.
I do not have a way to supplement the nursing cow with twins. She would be on her own.

 

[RebelCritter]

I thought when a cow gives twins, one or both of them were sterile. Is that not true? Maybe it was a different animal I am thinkin of.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Same sex twins - both are fine. Heifer/bull twins, heifer is high probability of being a freemartin (non-breeder)(maybe as much as 98%) there is a blood test to determine if she is a normal breeder.

 

[shorty]

I rather wouldn't have twins either but I do have twin heifers that I got as calves and they are doing fine they had their 2nd calves last spring and they are bred again for april , they raised nice calves, I've had 3 sets of twins over the last few years, always lost one of them , and it always was the nicer one that died or was born dead. I kept a heifer from a set of twin heifers and she had her 1st calf last last spring and is bred again, I wouldn't try keeeping a heifer born twin to a bull they get sold as feeders or kept for slaughter.

 

[Alan]

The bull, now a steer, is going to be dinner when he's older and his sister will be AI, if she doesnt cary oh well.

I was under the impression a heifer twin in a bull/heifer set had a 100% chance of being a free martin, I guess 98% is close enough. I would ship her, eat her, or sell her. If she was mine I wouldn't throw money at trying to get her bred.

JMO
Alan

 

[milkmaid]

The bull, now a steer, is going to be dinner when he's older and his sister will be AI, if she doesnt cary oh well.

Kinda hard to AI a freemartin if she doesn't have any of the necessary internal parts and never cycles. :lol:

I have a heifer-bull twin set here - on one of my nurse cows - plan is for both calves to be dinner in May. I'll put 'em on a bit of grain for 45-60 days, and butcher them right off the cow. Yum.