Turkeys

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I'm pretty sure coons were in pretty good shape back where I lived last year and skunks the same way out here, judging from the number of dead skunks I see on the roadways.
 
I just don't see it in the real world. For all the cell cams I have running over feeders 24/7, 365 and time I spend around them, I have never seen any signs of that. In fact, rarely do I get a hen with a hatch at feeders. I do get gobblers or groups of jakes but they are spotty. That is real world, watching feeders all the time.

I would like to see their data on how frequent hens with hatches are visiting the feeders they monitor.

They claim the same thing about quail yet every feeder had a very large, healthy, covey next to it this past year. Context goes a long way. A feeder with inadequate cover can hurt the quail. A feeder with adequate cover can help the quail.

If we have one feeder per 250-500 ac. A feeder feeds 2 sacks per week for 6 mo and 1 sack per week for 6 mo. If you break that down to two feeding per day it's #7@2 and #3.5@1, per feeding. In order, deer frequent the most, followed by hogs, then turkey. Hogs get shot off feeders pretty quick. Turkey mainly come through after every thing else and clean up the little pieces the others can't get and they are not consistent when they show up. They may be there 3 days and not be back for a month.

With that real world info, I don't see that being enough feed to totally change the life of two groups of animals, who aren't even the primary users of feeders.

Even then, I go back to looking at other factors. Do you just have a predator problem in general where they are hitting your turkey, your fawns, and every thing else? Wouldn't deer be on the same decline since they frequent feeders even more often?
How are hogs increasing from feeders and turkey decreasing? Coyotes love baby pigs also.

Not a lot of consistency there.
In my real world we no longer have a turkey season. TPWD has closed here for five years and will reevaluate then.
You haven't had the habitat destruction either the Big Thicket was millions of acres in the sixties today less than 90k in isolated reserve pockets consisting of half dozen units.
This destruction again was from the Trinity river east to the Atlantic Ocean for pine trees.
Nothing grows under a pine plantation.
Wouldn't matter we no longer have turkey's to hunt.
 
Had a friend die recently. He was 76 years old. Now that he is dead I am sure he won't mind me telling this story. He was about as a hard core cock fighter that has ever been born. He lived to fight game rooster's and if I were to say his name on here which I won't. I would be willing to bet there would be people here know of him.

Anyone who fights game cocks maintains a lot of them tied to tie cords inside of a high fenced in area to protect their fighting cocks from predators.

One the worst predators he had to deal with was Owls. He told killed 400 and something Owls in the 30 years he had live in his last place of residence. And said he had probably killed almost as many in the other place's he had lived before he moved there.

The way he killed the owls was by setting a still trap on a post about 10 foot tall on the fence. The owls land on the post in order to pick them out a rooster, get a foot in the still trap. And my friend said you find the Owl hanging up side down the next morning.

We talked talked about the fact that owls probably kill a lot of turkeys and quail and my friend told me he guaranteed me that they do. He said the Owls had killed a lot of his roosters before he learned how to trap them. And said he still lost a lot after he learned how to trap them.

Fur trapping started becoming a thing of the past back in the early eighties. So predators like coon, bobcat, fox, coyote etc…,along with the owls, use of chemicals all played roll's in the declining population's. And the big loss of habitat as Caustic has talked about. Then you throw in human predators (hunter's) that has increased by 10 fold +.

I don't think there is a way to bring things back to the way they were.
 
Had a friend die recently. He was 76 years old. Now that he is dead I am sure he won't mind me telling this story. He was about as a hard core cock fighter that has ever been born. He lived to fight game rooster's and if I were to say his name on here which I won't. I would be willing to bet there would be people here know of him.

Anyone who fights game cocks maintains a lot of them tied to tie cords inside of a high fenced in area to protect their fighting cocks from predators.

One the worst predators he had to deal with was Owls. He told killed 400 and something Owls in the 30 years he had live in his last place of residence. And said he had probably killed almost as many in the other place's he had lived before he moved there.

The way he killed the owls was by setting a still trap on a post about 10 foot tall on the fence. The owls land on the post in order to pick them out a rooster, get a foot in the still trap. And my friend said you find the Owl hanging up side down the next morning.

We talked talked about the fact that owls probably kill a lot of turkeys and quail and my friend told me he guaranteed me that they do. He said the Owls had killed a lot of his roosters before he learned how to trap them. And said he still lost a lot after he learned how to trap them.

Fur trapping started becoming a thing of the past back in the early eighties. So predators like coon, bobcat, fox, coyote etc…,along with the owls, use of chemicals all played roll's in the declining population's. And the big loss of habitat as Caustic has talked about. Then you throw in human predators (hunter's) that has increased by 10 fold +.

I don't think there is a way to bring things back to the way they were.
Predators have to eat, just like anything else. And when the pickings get slim they move on to better hunting grounds. Something related happens with prey animals. If they survive until the predators thin out, they have more chances of raising young successfully. Nature works in cycles.
 
When we purchased this property (No turkeys) it was old overgrown pasture. (15-25ft trees). Bush hogged regularly. Worked itself out with rotations. As I rotate the cows The turkeys come and go around here now. . New neighbors have about 8 horses that kept the birds on the other end of the property all through spring hunting season. Like a game for them to keep them in the woods. I had fun watching.... maybe better luck in the fall.
 
Had a friend die recently. He was 76 years old. Now that he is dead I am sure he won't mind me telling this story. He was about as a hard core cock fighter that has ever been born. He lived to fight game rooster's and if I were to say his name on here which I won't. I would be willing to bet there would be people here know of him.

Anyone who fights game cocks maintains a lot of them tied to tie cords inside of a high fenced in area to protect their fighting cocks from predators.

One the worst predators he had to deal with was Owls. He told killed 400 and something Owls in the 30 years he had live in his last place of residence. And said he had probably killed almost as many in the other place's he had lived before he moved there.

The way he killed the owls was by setting a still trap on a post about 10 foot tall on the fence. The owls land on the post in order to pick them out a rooster, get a foot in the still trap. And my friend said you find the Owl hanging up side down the next morning.

We talked talked about the fact that owls probably kill a lot of turkeys and quail and my friend told me he guaranteed me that they do. He said the Owls had killed a lot of his roosters before he learned how to trap them. And said he still lost a lot after he learned how to trap them.

Fur trapping started becoming a thing of the past back in the early eighties. So predators like coon, bobcat, fox, coyote etc…,along with the owls, use of chemicals all played roll's in the declining population's. And the big loss of habitat as Caustic has talked about. Then you throw in human predators (hunter's) that has increased by 10 fold +.

I don't think there is a way to bring things back to the way they were.
I once knew a man that had crawfish operations on the edge of the Atchafalyia Basin and he told me he killed every owl he saw too, and I saw about 20 owl carcasses in various stages of decay and dismemberment around the edge of the water and on the dirt road.
He didn't trap..he shot them with a shotgun.
He claimed they could and did somehow rob his crawfish traps...

It made me feel more than a little uncomfortable know this.
I kinda like owls but I realize too, that The Owls Are Not What They Seem...
 
Owls, skunk, dillos, hawks, oyotes etc, are everywhere here. Chickens go in early due to preditors.
 
Now, they are blaming coons with a lot of issues from diseases in cattle to tearing up quail nests and I'm sure turkey nests, also. Not long ago they had coons almost wiped out. Now they are every where with no real predators.
We are ate up with coons as well. We every other kind of varmit as well, no one traps anymore.
It blows my mind to go west of Juntion to my friends ranch .
Predators everywhere along with plenty of turkeys.
The difference I see there versus here is their native habitat has remained virtually unchanged.
We have made a pine desert and without supplemental feeding we wouldn't have a deer to 30 acres now.
Doubt if we would see one .
Squirrel hunting here was bigger than deer. The reason it died is there is no hardwood forest anymore.
I know of one squirrel hunter besides myself.
If I didn't have 50 acres of native timber I would be out as well.
 
I once knew a man that had crawfish operations on the edge of the Atchafalyia Basin and he told me he killed every owl he saw too, and I saw about 20 owl carcasses in various stages of decay and dismemberment around the edge of the water and on the dirt road.
He didn't trap..he shot them with a shotgun.
He claimed they could and did somehow rob his crawfish traps...

It made me feel more than a little uncomfortable know this.
I kinda like owls but I realize too, that The Owls Are Not What They Seem...
I am the same way. I don't have anything against owls and I basically like all of god's creatures. I know that all have a place and purpose.

I was amazed at how many my friend had killed over the years just in that one area. And it wasn't like someone going out and poaching. My friend wasn't going out hunting them. He was just protecting his game cocks like a cattleman would shoot dogs killing his calves to protect his calves.

I am like a lot of others who grew up hunting. When game population's started dwindling, reclining. I was trying to figure out what was happening. Lot of things like herbicide spraying, trapping which is a thing of the past, loss of habitat and so on.

We all have our own theories as to what the causes and how to fix things are. My personal opinion is that the world population is nearing its maximum carrying capacity just like a cattleman's farm can only maintain so many head of cattle. The world can only sustain so many people. And that creates similar problems for us humans like we as hunters are seeing in our vanishing wildlife populations. I guess the best way to describe what I think has caused the decline of our wildlife is in general everything is out of balance and all man made problems.

Wasn't but around 100 years ago here in the United States alone wild buffalo out numbered all of the cattle we raise here now. And they didn't require no maintenance to sustain them. They thrived and done well. No fences needed, they didn't have to be vaccinated, fed hay in the winter and so on. That was the way with all of our wildlife. Was probably that way across the globe.

But as the human population begin to grow. It started taking away from habitat and migration routes for things like buffalo. Things started getting out of balance. It wasn't as noticeable when it first started. But as time passed things got more and more out of balance.

Habitat for all animals across the globe human animals included. Has steadily been declining. Oh there are spots here and there where you can still find places to hunt game but as fast as the human population is growing and the more the need for space for population growth is needed. I think eventually what little habitat that is left where you can still find game in large enough numbers to accommodate hunters will be gone in the near future.

I use to think that our game & fish commission could keep things under control and all & all have done a ok job at trying. But one thing they can't control is the world population. And that is only growing by the thousands by each tick of the clock. And the game/fish or anyone can control. It's out of balance.
 
I am the same way. I don't have anything against owls and I basically like all of god's creatures. I know that all have a place and purpose.

I was amazed at how many my friend had killed over the years just in that one area. And it wasn't like someone going out and poaching. My friend wasn't going out hunting them. He was just protecting his game cocks like a cattleman would shoot dogs killing his calves to protect his calves.

I am like a lot of others who grew up hunting. When game population's started dwindling, reclining. I was trying to figure out what was happening. Lot of things like herbicide spraying, trapping which is a thing of the past, loss of habitat and so on.

We all have our own theories as to what the causes and how to fix things are. My personal opinion is that the world population is nearing its maximum carrying capacity just like a cattleman's farm can only maintain so many head of cattle. The world can only sustain so many people. And that creates similar problems for us humans like we as hunters are seeing in our vanishing wildlife populations. I guess the best way to describe what I think has caused the decline of our wildlife is in general everything is out of balance and all man made problems.

Wasn't but around 100 years ago here in the United States alone wild buffalo out numbered all of the cattle we raise here now. And they didn't require no maintenance to sustain them. They thrived and done well. No fences needed, they didn't have to be vaccinated, fed hay in the winter and so on. That was the way with all of our wildlife. Was probably that way across the globe.

But as the human population begin to grow. It started taking away from habitat and migration routes for things like buffalo. Things started getting out of balance. It wasn't as noticeable when it first started. But as time passed things got more and more out of balance.

Habitat for all animals across the globe human animals included. Has steadily been declining. Oh there are spots here and there where you can still find places to hunt game but as fast as the human population is growing and the more the need for space for population growth is needed. I think eventually what little habitat that is left where you can still find game in large enough numbers to accommodate hunters will be gone in the near future.

I use to think that our game & fish commission could keep things under control and all & all have done a ok job at trying. But one thing they can't control is the world population. And that is only growing by the thousands by each tick of the clock. And the game/fish or anyone can control. It's out of balance.

Seems to me that most reports are saying birth rates are declining, not increasing? Guess it depends on who's telling the story.
 
Seems to me that most reports are saying birth rates are declining, not increasing? Guess it depends on who's telling the story.
We've had declining birth rates worldwide... but that doesn't mean we don't have an increasing population. For about fifty years we've had an extra billion people added to the population every 11/12 years. When I was born there were about 2.6 billion people. Now 8 billion.

And in my family every couple has only had two kids since 1900. Replacements for the parents. One of the things I'm most proud of is that we haven't added to the overpopulation disaster. And we haven't missed a single one of the children we never had...
 
We've had declining birth rates worldwide... but that doesn't mean we don't have an increasing population. For about fifty years we've had an extra billion people added to the population every 11/12 years. When I was born there were about 2.6 billion people. Now 8 billion.

And in my family every couple has only had two kids since 1900. Replacements for their parents. One of the things I'm most proud of is that we haven't added to the overpopulation disaster. And we haven't missed a single one of the children we never had...

Oh, my wife and I are about to add 2 more to the population here in a month or so.
 
Wasn't but around 100 years ago here in the United States alone wild buffalo out numbered all of the cattle we raise here now. And they didn't require no maintenance to sustain them. They thrived and done well. No fences needed, they didn't have to be vaccinated, fed hay in the winter and so on. That was the way with all of our wildlife. Was probably that way across the globe.
I'm pretty sure there's been more cattle than bison since the late 1880s, certainly by the 1890s.

Edit: Used my Google-Fu, there were 541 wild bison left in the US in 1889.
 
We are ate up with coons as well. We every other kind of varmit as well, no one traps anymore.
It blows my mind to go west of Juntion to my friends ranch .
Predators everywhere along with plenty of turkeys.
The difference I see there versus here is their native habitat has remained virtually unchanged.
We have made a pine desert and without supplemental feeding we wouldn't have a deer to 30 acres now.
Doubt if we would see one .
Squirrel hunting here was bigger than deer. The reason it died is there is no hardwood forest anymore.
I know of one squirrel hunter besides myself.
If I didn't have 50 acres of native timber I would be out as well.
I enjoy go down south and even out to west Texas and seeing the wildlife. When there is that much acreage left native, it's amazing what the wildlife can do.
 
100 years ago, was 1923. Even then, there were lots more cattle than bison in the US.


The following is a .docx file available for download or viewing thru Microsoft Office or Word.
bison timeline
 
I am the same way. I don't have anything against owls and I basically like all of god's creatures. I know that all have a place and purpose.

I was amazed at how many my friend had killed over the years just in that one area. And it wasn't like someone going out and poaching. My friend wasn't going out hunting them. He was just protecting his game cocks like a cattleman would shoot dogs killing his calves to protect his calves.

I am like a lot of others who grew up hunting. When game population's started dwindling, reclining. I was trying to figure out what was happening. Lot of things like herbicide spraying, trapping which is a thing of the past, loss of habitat and so on.

We all have our own theories as to what the causes and how to fix things are. My personal opinion is that the world population is nearing its maximum carrying capacity just like a cattleman's farm can only maintain so many head of cattle. The world can only sustain so many people. And that creates similar problems for us humans like we as hunters are seeing in our vanishing wildlife populations. I guess the best way to describe what I think has caused the decline of our wildlife is in general everything is out of balance and all man made problems.

Wasn't but around 100 years ago here in the United States alone wild buffalo out numbered all of the cattle we raise here now. And they didn't require no maintenance to sustain them. They thrived and done well. No fences needed, they didn't have to be vaccinated, fed hay in the winter and so on. That was the way with all of our wildlife. Was probably that way across the globe.

But as the human population begin to grow. It started taking away from habitat and migration routes for things like buffalo. Things started getting out of balance. It wasn't as noticeable when it first started. But as time passed things got more and more out of balance.

Habitat for all animals across the globe human animals included. Has steadily been declining. Oh there are spots here and there where you can still find places to hunt game but as fast as the human population is growing and the more the need for space for population growth is needed. I think eventually what little habitat that is left where you can still find game in large enough numbers to accommodate hunters will be gone in the near future.

I use to think that our game & fish commission could keep things under control and all & all have done a ok job at trying. But one thing they can't control is the world population. And that is only growing by the thousands by each tick of the clock. And the game/fish or anyone can control. It's out of balance.
Great reason to actually stop illegal immigration
 
100 years ago, was 1923. Even then, there were lots more cattle than bison in the US.


The following is a .docx file available for download or viewing thru Microsoft Office or Word.
bison timeline
Yeah I figured I was off on my time period when I wrote that. I looked up something probably similar too that bison time line. It was probably closer to 250 years ago that bison out numbered cattle. Would that be about right Greybeard ?

My point was that before government had the Bison wiped out to gain control over the Indians. Land,wildlife,wilderness,people all lived more in harmony at that time here in North America. All of those things seemed to have thrived better together then. I like to say all of those things were balanced.

But basically events all across the world similar to the extermination of buffalo that lead to make more room for the worlds growing population has been part of the reason wildlife has continuously declined.

Other things like the destruction of the rain forest put the hurt on certain animals and so on ?
 

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