50/50Farms
Well-known member
IME, a good stand of trees with an open canopy type on a hill, military crest, rise, etc overlooking a valley, hollow, field or bottom is where I can call them off the roost and kill them with boring regularity.
Turkeys
- Thread starter callmefence
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We are mostly in the south zone so we have a spring and fall season.
What's odd though is I grew up turkey hunting at a family place in Lavaca Co. We rarely hunted turkeys around here. Now, Lavaca is in jeopardy of losing them also. They have cut them to a one bird limit and only in the spring.
Lee VanRoss
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You can try it but I doubt if you will get many turkeys from a semi. Just say'n
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
I blame a lot of it on hogs, and lack of timber management.
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callmefence
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Dave
Well-known member
I have some turkeys. Not very many. Some of my neighbors have a lot of them. Rumor is that they are hard on the rattle snakes. One neighbor who has a lot of them claims he doesn't have nearly as many snakes since the turkey population exploded. One of his daughters was snake bit years ago. She is the only person I know who has been bit around here. The result is my wife does not allow shooting of turkeys here.
DNelson
Well-known member
we have more turkeys than you can shake a stick at. they are good winter food for the coyotes and bobcats which probably increases their numbers. can't win.
I think fire ants, hogs and coyotes are causing a big drop on all small game and birds, I bought our place in 98 and there was plenty of quail, haven't even heard one on about 3 or 4 years, we would very occasionally have a turkey you could hear, again none any more, still a lof of rabbits but not as many as before. We have done little clearing so I can't blame it on that
50/50Farms
Well-known member
Dogs and cats do a big number on stuff like that too, I can't stand when people catch strays, spay them and turn them loose again when there's a ten cent solution that prevents both the breeding and the predation.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Fire ants and coyotes were here in the 70's the hog invasion and pine plantation have appeared since and the demise of our all ground nesting birds.
We don't have half the deer we used to, not a lot in a pine desert to eat.
no pine plantations near us to speak of, coyote population was here but in our area higher than before, I can't speak about increase or decrease of fire ants here but in several areas on our place they can get pretty prolific and i was surprised when I talk to the game people about the number of fawns that get brought in full of ants, ( I've never seen that myself), we have a lot of deer, at least as many maybe more than in 98, but overall I think the combination of all of that has made a big difference in our area
FlyingLSimmentals
Well-known member
The wild turkey are nearly gone from around here. A decade ago there were more than you could count and hard to choose which gobble you wanted to go hunt. I won't hunt the last few we have. Deer and Squirrel about all I hunt now.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
I was reading a biologist study claiming the feeding of corn to deer is causing population decline.
The hens are bringing the poults in to the easy food source making them more vulnerable to predation.
But the one that caught my attention is the corn is lower in protein than the insect diet they should be on.
This is causing the poults to go longer before moult and get flight feathers. This results in longer ground roosting increasing predation as well.
That sounds like some of that northern, anti-feeder, stuff. 
Wild animals will always go for the best food source. If that were true wouldn't turkeys be on a huge decline every where corn is farmed also?
My first thought is where did there natural food source go that they are relying so heavily on corn feeders?
I was just having this discussion with a friend that we saw the most turkeys we have seen in several years this season. We said it was like the old days.
What has changed? When we started on the property the entire thing was shredded every year. There were weeds, brush, etc... but it was not over grazed. We came in and sprayed herb and basically turned the property to either beautiful clean grass or brush. We grew grass like never before and even fert some areas. It was great for cattle... BUT.... the turkey dropped off. Being that we have other properties in the close vicinity we need they didn't just disappear.
Fast forward to this year, we have not sprayed herb in around 3 yrs. We have done ipt on the brush and there is a light mix of weeds. The drought conditions have made for so-so grass. It's better than others but not nearly what a wet year would produce.
From me running from Lavaca county where the turkey are almost gone, as are the quail, south to the Jim Hogg where there is great turkey and some of the best quail in the world, I see the difference in environment.
There is little to no herb sprayed in JH. There are large tracks of brush and weeds. There is little no no hay production. Fire or ipt is used to manage brush.
Lavaca County is getting chopped up by the day. Herb and fert is used as well as improved grasses to get more out of less. Overgrazing is rampant to support the cows, horses, donkeys, etc. Larger tracks are grazed and bailed... grazed and bailed.
Cow patties will sit for months in Lavaca County. In Jim Hogg there will be tons of beatles and butterflies break down the patties in short time.
This is not a chemical hate speech but there is some a reality to herb. Bugs need the weeds and vines and the flowers and all that stuff that you don't want to see in your hay field. Birds, turkey or quail, need the bugs and the seeds.
Quail started pairing up weeks ago in JH due to the rain and explosion of food. When you are driving through the pasture and get that strong aroma of weeds and vines and other thing that tear your allergies up... that where the wildlife will be.
Back to my main point, if turkeys are relying that heavily on a feeder, I would inspect the pasture and see where there natural feed went.
Wild animals will always go for the best food source. If that were true wouldn't turkeys be on a huge decline every where corn is farmed also?My first thought is where did there natural food source go that they are relying so heavily on corn feeders?
I was just having this discussion with a friend that we saw the most turkeys we have seen in several years this season. We said it was like the old days.
What has changed? When we started on the property the entire thing was shredded every year. There were weeds, brush, etc... but it was not over grazed. We came in and sprayed herb and basically turned the property to either beautiful clean grass or brush. We grew grass like never before and even fert some areas. It was great for cattle... BUT.... the turkey dropped off. Being that we have other properties in the close vicinity we need they didn't just disappear.
Fast forward to this year, we have not sprayed herb in around 3 yrs. We have done ipt on the brush and there is a light mix of weeds. The drought conditions have made for so-so grass. It's better than others but not nearly what a wet year would produce.
From me running from Lavaca county where the turkey are almost gone, as are the quail, south to the Jim Hogg where there is great turkey and some of the best quail in the world, I see the difference in environment.
There is little to no herb sprayed in JH. There are large tracks of brush and weeds. There is little no no hay production. Fire or ipt is used to manage brush.
Lavaca County is getting chopped up by the day. Herb and fert is used as well as improved grasses to get more out of less. Overgrazing is rampant to support the cows, horses, donkeys, etc. Larger tracks are grazed and bailed... grazed and bailed.
Cow patties will sit for months in Lavaca County. In Jim Hogg there will be tons of beatles and butterflies break down the patties in short time.
This is not a chemical hate speech but there is some a reality to herb. Bugs need the weeds and vines and the flowers and all that stuff that you don't want to see in your hay field. Birds, turkey or quail, need the bugs and the seeds.
Quail started pairing up weeks ago in JH due to the rain and explosion of food. When you are driving through the pasture and get that strong aroma of weeds and vines and other thing that tear your allergies up... that where the wildlife will be.
Back to my main point, if turkeys are relying that heavily on a feeder, I would inspect the pasture and see where there natural feed went.
Can't remember if it was this forum or another where they were talking dry vs wet fert on coastal hay fields.
One person said, liquid because I can spray fert, herb, and for grasshoppers in one shot. That doesn't leave a turkey or a quail much to work with.
One person said, liquid because I can spray fert, herb, and for grasshoppers in one shot. That doesn't leave a turkey or a quail much to work with.
Travlr
Well-known member
Personally, I'm fine with chemical hate speech. There's less insects every year. I light my porch light in the summer and there are so few insects that I don't even worry about how fast I have to get through the door. And a lot of the big ones are gone. There's supposed to be 68% less insects since the turn of this century, 2000, in Europe, China, and the States.That sounds like some of that northern, anti-feeder, stuff.
My first thought is where did there natural food source go that they are relying so heavily on corn feeders?
I was just having this discussion with a friend that we saw the most turkeys we have seen in several years this season. We said it was like the old days.
What has changed? When we started on the property the entire thing was shredded every year. There were weeds, brush, etc... but it was not over grazed. We came in and sprayed herb and basically turned the property to either beautiful clean grass or brush. We grew grass like never before and even fert some areas. It was great for cattle... BUT.... the turkey dropped off. Being that we have other properties in the close vicinity we need they didn't just disappear.
Fast forward to this year, we have not sprayed herb in around 3 yrs. We have done ipt on the brush and there is a light mix of weeds. The drought conditions have made for so-so grass. It's better than others but not nearly what a wet year would produce.
From me running from Lavaca county where the turkey are almost gone, as are the quail, south to the Jim Hogg where there is great turkey and some of the best quail in the world, I see the difference in environment.
There is little to no herb sprayed in JH. There are large tracks of brush and weeds. There is little no no hay production. Fire or ipt is used to manage brush.
Lavaca County is getting chopped up by the day. Herb and fert is used as well as improved grasses to get more out of less. Overgrazing is rampant to support the cows, horses, donkeys, etc. Larger tracks are grazed and bailed... grazed and bailed.
Cow patties will sit for months in Lavaca County. In Jim Hogg there will be tons of beatles and butterflies break down the patties in short time.
This is not a chemical hate speech but there is some a reality to herb. Bugs need the weeds and vines and the flowers and all that stuff that you don't want to see in your hay field. Birds, turkey or quail, need the bugs and the seeds.
Quail started pairing up weeks ago in JH due to the rain and explosion of food. When you are driving through the pasture and get that strong aroma of weeds and vines and other thing that tear your allergies up... that where the wildlife will be.
Back to my main point, if turkeys are relying that heavily on a feeder, I would inspect the pasture and see where there natural feed went.
When I got my ranch in SD the place had been used for crop farming and the soil was dead. Too many chemicals, tilling, and water... not enough natural manure and good thatch to act as mulch. No variety in grasses. After a couple of years of me manually going out and digging the weeds I wanted to get rid of, rotating the cows to maximize their manure in the right places, and introducing different wild grasses and clovers, the wildlife moved back in. Once that happened I knew the place was on the way back. And my stocking rate doubled.
If people want to spray or what ever on there property it's their choice. My thing is, you can't have it both ways. I hear so many people talk about how it use to be... but they aren't willing to honestly look at themselves as a cause.
You want pretty hay fields or turkeys? Which is it?
As I said, I am guilty of it, too. I didn't even realize what I was doing.
You want pretty hay fields or turkeys? Which is it?
As I said, I am guilty of it, too. I didn't even realize what I was doing.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Brute I can see the point in the corn. The hen goes to the easiest food source. Everything in the woods like corn! If it isn't feeding on it directly it supplied an easy hunting ground. Turkey poult survival is really low to start with like two or three poults per clutch to maturity. This guy isn't claiming less insect's, he is claiming their feeding patterns have changed resulting in lower numbers.
Corn has not been our friend with the explosion of the feral hog either. We have placed our foot on the accelerator by supplementing feeding. The sows are healthy and have a reliable food source and are raising bigger litters. I can't quote the number from Dr. Highinbotham but we are feeding millions of pounds in Texas alone, he was the feral hog expert at TAMU.
We have dined together on several occasions discussing hog control .
This bunch up here is just waking up and fencing in the feeders from hogs that won't fix the turkey issue.
Problem for the longest was the timber companies not allowing it, they did not want the wire panel or t post on their land.
When East Texas counties like mine are 96% owned by timber companies makes it a little tough on control.
We have went from natural forest from the Trinity river east to the Atlantic Ocean to pine plantation. We have removed millions of acres of habitat and replaced it with pine desert.
Our deer population went from one in six acres to one in thirty due to habitat. You could drive from Woodville to Chester in the 70's and easily count a hundred deer today you seldom see one. We cut down the native forest and replaced it with pine and raise our deer on supplemental feeding.
There were a lot more people living in these woods when I was a kid on 99 year 40 acre tenant leases deer was the primary meat source year around, point is hunting pressure actually has gone down.
Corn has not been our friend with the explosion of the feral hog either. We have placed our foot on the accelerator by supplementing feeding. The sows are healthy and have a reliable food source and are raising bigger litters. I can't quote the number from Dr. Highinbotham but we are feeding millions of pounds in Texas alone, he was the feral hog expert at TAMU.
We have dined together on several occasions discussing hog control .
This bunch up here is just waking up and fencing in the feeders from hogs that won't fix the turkey issue.
Problem for the longest was the timber companies not allowing it, they did not want the wire panel or t post on their land.
When East Texas counties like mine are 96% owned by timber companies makes it a little tough on control.
We have went from natural forest from the Trinity river east to the Atlantic Ocean to pine plantation. We have removed millions of acres of habitat and replaced it with pine desert.
Our deer population went from one in six acres to one in thirty due to habitat. You could drive from Woodville to Chester in the 70's and easily count a hundred deer today you seldom see one. We cut down the native forest and replaced it with pine and raise our deer on supplemental feeding.
There were a lot more people living in these woods when I was a kid on 99 year 40 acre tenant leases deer was the primary meat source year around, point is hunting pressure actually has gone down.
I just don't see it in the real world. For all the cell cams I have running over feeders 24/7, 365 and time I spend around them, I have never seen any signs of that. In fact, rarely do I get a hen with a hatch at feeders. I do get gobblers or groups of jakes but they are spotty. That is real world, watching feeders all the time.
I would like to see their data on how frequent hens with hatches are visiting the feeders they monitor.
They claim the same thing about quail yet every feeder had a very large, healthy, covey next to it this past year. Context goes a long way. A feeder with inadequate cover can hurt the quail. A feeder with adequate cover can help the quail.
If we have one feeder per 250-500 ac. A feeder feeds 2 sacks per week for 6 mo and 1 sack per week for 6 mo. If you break that down to two feeding per day it's #7@2 and #3.5@1, per feeding. In order, deer frequent the most, followed by hogs, then turkey. Hogs get shot off feeders pretty quick. Turkey mainly come through after every thing else and clean up the little pieces the others can't get and they are not consistent when they show up. They may be there 3 days and not be back for a month.
With that real world info, I don't see that being enough feed to totally change the life of two groups of animals, who aren't even the primary users of feeders.
Even then, I go back to looking at other factors. Do you just have a predator problem in general where they are hitting your turkey, your fawns, and every thing else? Wouldn't deer be on the same decline since they frequent feeders even more often?
How are hogs increasing from feeders and turkey decreasing? Coyotes love baby pigs also.
Not a lot of consistency there.
I would like to see their data on how frequent hens with hatches are visiting the feeders they monitor.
They claim the same thing about quail yet every feeder had a very large, healthy, covey next to it this past year. Context goes a long way. A feeder with inadequate cover can hurt the quail. A feeder with adequate cover can help the quail.
If we have one feeder per 250-500 ac. A feeder feeds 2 sacks per week for 6 mo and 1 sack per week for 6 mo. If you break that down to two feeding per day it's #7@2 and #3.5@1, per feeding. In order, deer frequent the most, followed by hogs, then turkey. Hogs get shot off feeders pretty quick. Turkey mainly come through after every thing else and clean up the little pieces the others can't get and they are not consistent when they show up. They may be there 3 days and not be back for a month.
With that real world info, I don't see that being enough feed to totally change the life of two groups of animals, who aren't even the primary users of feeders.
Even then, I go back to looking at other factors. Do you just have a predator problem in general where they are hitting your turkey, your fawns, and every thing else? Wouldn't deer be on the same decline since they frequent feeders even more often?
How are hogs increasing from feeders and turkey decreasing? Coyotes love baby pigs also.
Not a lot of consistency there.
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Now, they are blaming coons with a lot of issues from diseases in cattle to tearing up quail nests and I'm sure turkey nests, also. Not long ago they had coons almost wiped out. Now they are every where with no real predators.
