Trees for Posts

[simme]

For the corners and braces, better use pressure treated purchased posts in this area. Those home cut posts may be cheaper initially for you, but "saving" on materials can be very expensive in the long term for any construction project (including fencing).

Better would be welded pipe if that is an option for you.

 

[Brute 23]

We have cedar posts still in use that my dad put in as a teenager. That's over 50 years on the gulf coast. Pretty impressive.

There use yo be a guy here in town that hired crews to go out and cut cedar posts. They literally camped out there for a week and cut every day. Knew a few guys that went. It was tough but they made pretty good money. None stayed at it very long because the guy was an a hole and they said you could never get away from him.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

We have Northern white cedar UP here. There's lots of 100yo posts still standing. They were "old growth" with tight rings and very little sapwood.

Most of today's cedar posts don't last 10 year. Open grown, wide rings, and lots of sapwood.

And if you don't peal the bark the bugs destroy them.

A hardwood post is good for 3-5 years UP here.

 

[Rising2KRanch]

For the corners and braces, better use pressure treated purchased posts in this area. Those home cut posts may be cheaper initially for you, but "saving" on materials can be very expensive in the long term for any construction project (including fencing).

Better would be welded pipe if that is an option for you.

If I had old pipe laying about or could get a ton for cheap I'd definitely would go the welding route rather wood posts. Not trying to really go cheap and be out there again in a week. So seems like just biting the bullet this time and buying them, and get some trees down for next time and sort that out another day

 

[Rising2KRanch]

thank you everyone for the great advice, knowledge, and help. Learned alot, and definitely was useful info

 

[Down in Dixie]

You can come down and cut all the Osage you want off my place. Just bring an extra chain and lots of bar oil.

 

[SmokinM]

Talking about red cedar with a heart. Found the tip interesting to help decide which have a good heart for use.
View attachment 47229

Yes they grow til they are all heart then they die. Find one standing dead in the middle of a hardwood stand and those are premium posts. Hit them with the claw side of your hammer and it should go in about 1/4" tops. Also look right where the roots hit the ground. If it has been dead a bit the sap wood will have rotted off from there and you can see how deep it runs.

 

[Logan52]

For much of my life the idea of going to the farm store and purchasing treated posts to use in farm fencing was nearly unheard of.
Good black locust, red cedar, or hedge (Osage Orange) are actually superior to what you buy but their scarcity and the difficulty of the labor involved has led to their decline in use.
It takes a lot of knowledge as to the timing of cutting, their drying or curing, amount of heart wood, and other knowledge to use them effectively. Many today do not have that knowledge or the time to use it.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

@Rising2KRanch, I don't know the reason/objective that you are wanting to utilize trees that are occurring on your farm. Because they are 'readily available', attempt to save money, creating an all natural or even organic operation? You might consider consulting with your local Natural Resource Conservation Service (NRCS) and see how they can help. There are a variety of things they can assist with. Pasture design/setup, water development/troughs, pasture plantings, brush/tree control, fence design, fencing materials (which trees and preparation (rarely used but can help you here)), cost sharing/contracts for conservation/farm/operation improvements (usual reason 'we' get contacted). I'm not in AL, but I can tell you about what we do. Why the 'natural' fence posts?

 

[Mark Reynolds]

For much of my life the idea of going to the farm store and purchasing treated posts to use in farm fencing was nearly unheard of.
Good black locust, red cedar, or hedge (Osage Orange) are actually superior to what you buy but their scarcity and the difficulty of the labor involved has led to their decline in use.
It takes a lot of knowledge as to the timing of cutting, their drying or curing, amount of heart wood, and other knowledge to use them effectively. Many today do not have that knowledge or the time to use it.

@Logan52, I know the 'basics' of these natural posts and the why (durability) of using them, but what I don't know is the preparation of them. It seems you do. Can you school me on this some?

 

[kenny thomas]

@Mark Reynolds , we tslk about how good natural posts are compared to treated pine but NRCS nor SWCD allow them to be used in their cost share. Here is how long some will last. Each area will be different but the best will still be the best. This is for Nebraska.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

@Mark Reynolds , we tslk about how good natural posts are compared to treated pine but NRCS nor SWCD allow them to be used in their cost share.

It has been awhile since I have seen it referenced and longer since I have used it, but in all actuality, the cedar, locust and osage/hedge posts are/should still be allowable (historically at least they have been). Post Preparation must be correct. Honestly, the time and difficulty of preparing and getting enough of these to be worthwhile where I am precludes anyone from doing it. However, if an employee does enough digging (in OH at least) he can find the rules. I myself would allow it as it's in the regs. I might catch he** for it, but as far as I know, it's still allowable and I would do it. The thing is, I have my doubts that we could find a producer that would want to do this, or be inclined to try it based on what is involved vs purchasing 'ready-made' posts.

If the posts meet specs in terms of longevity and strength (these 3 do when prepared correctly) they can be allowed. A 'waiver' might be required, hence me saying "I would allow it." Note my question to @Logan52 due to my limited knowledge, but I know they are good posts when done correctly.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

.

 

[cowhead]

cedar's probably your best bet if you've got it on your land.

 

[Logan52]

They need to be cut when the sap is down (August through December). The locust need to be debarked. Care should be taken the locust is not infected with a fungus that can greatly reduce their life span in the ground. All 3 benefit from drying before being used but that makes it hard to drive a steeple in locust or hedge. A split post outlasts one used whole.
Old wives tale about how "yellow locust to be preferred over black locust" I think refers to how and where the tree grew, and not the species. The old timers also used the "signs" but I do not know about that.

Anyway, I have heartwood cedar posts still strong and taking steeples over 50 years old, Locust and hedge posts nearly that old but hard to get a steeple in.
I also have locust and cedar posts used incorrectly that are useless after10 or 12 years. That includes posts with too much sapwood, set green, or already fungus infected.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

They need to be cut when the sap is down (August through December). The locust need to be debarked. Care should be taken the locust is not infected with a fungus that can greatly reduce their life span in the ground. All 3 benefit from drying before being used but that makes it hard to drive a steeple in locust or hedge. A split post outlasts one used whole.
Old wives tale about how "yellow locust to be preferred over black locust" I think refers to how and where the tree grew, and not the species. The old timers also used the "signs" but I do not know about that.

Anyway, I have heartwood cedar posts still strong and taking steeples over 50 years old, Locust and hedge posts nearly that old but hard to get a steeple in.
I also have locust and cedar posts used incorrectly that are useless after10 or 12 years. That includes posts with too much sapwood, set green, or already fungus infected.

Thanks logan! Here's a thought on maybe why 'yellow' locust is preferred over black as it lasts longer. I'm wondering if that statement is referring more to the heartwood of the locust the same way it is being looked at in cedar, and the heartwood amount is also determined by where it is growing. Here's another thought. trees from forested areas are preferred because they tend to have more heartwood. Well, the reason they have more heartwood is because they actually grow slower in those locations and there is less sapwood as a result.

 

[greybeard]

Look for the book "The Cedar Choppers" by Roberts and you'll learn a lot about cedar posts, their history and how long it's been going on in Central Texas and how long those posts last.

It's still a 'thing' here.

cedar posts and stays

 

[Rising2KRanch]

@Rising2KRanch, I don't know the reason/objective that you are wanting to utilize trees that are occurring on your farm. Because they are 'readily available', attempt to save money, creating an all natural or even organic operation? You might consider consulting with your local Natural Resource Conservation Service (NRCS) and see how they can help. There are a variety of things they can assist with. Pasture design/setup, water development/troughs, pasture plantings, brush/tree control, fence design, fencing materials (which trees and preparation (rarely used but can help you here)), cost sharing/contracts for conservation/farm/operation improvements (usual reason 'we' get contacted). I'm not in AL, but I can tell you about what we do. Why the 'natural' fence posts?

I have 84 acres and lots of trees around that'll need to be cleared out, so If I can repurpose what's cut or removed and use it elsewhere then I'd rather go that route. I like to use my resources rather than just paying for things. So if there's trees I can use and prep for next year or for down the line then I will. Most will be sold or given away for firewood, since a lot of people here use wood stoves. But if I can get some posts out of it then great, if not, oh well.

 

[Rising2KRanch]

Yes they grow til they are all heart then they die. Find one standing dead in the middle of a hardwood stand and those are premium posts. Hit them with the claw side of your hammer and it should go in about 1/4" tops. Also look right where the roots hit the ground. If it has been dead a bit the sap wood will have rotted off from there and you can see how deep it runs.

I'll definitely keep this in mind when out and about on the property.

 

[kenny thomas]

Thanks logan! Here's a thought on maybe why 'yellow' locust is preferred over black as it lasts longer. I'm wondering if that statement is referring more to the heartwood of the locust the same way it is being looked at in cedar, and the heartwood amount is also determined by where it is growing. Here's another thought. trees from forested areas are preferred because they tend to have more heartwood. Well, the reason they have more heartwood is because they actually grow slower in those locations and there is less sapwood as a result.

Black and yellow locust are two names for the same exact tree. Locust at my elevation,1400ft, aren't very good posts. If i can get a logger to cut some from the north side of the mountain at 3500 they will last a lifetime. They will look yellow inside and many times split the first 8ft into 4 posts. But you must drive steeples within the first season or you will need a drill to get them in.