Toplines again

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Brandonm22

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About a month ago the board had a real long discussion about toplines. I got this catalog through an email. While thumbing through it, I noticed the rather "un-ideal" rear toplines of the two otherwise good Angus cows. One is the cow in the top left picture the other is the bottom left picture. They were Mother and daughter (the dam and grandams of lots 42 and 43). I am not knocking these cows. Neither have cull level bad tops; but it is certainly something you notice in the pics. It just struck me just how that much that structure passed so perfectly to the next generation. If anything the daughters top is worse than her dam's. I wonder if it passed to lots 42 and 43. We are more focused now on EPDs, performance numbers, and now DNA marker testing; but structure is still 60 to 70% inheritable.

http://www.angusjournal.com/salebooks/b ... ll/36.jpeg
 

novatech

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Brandonm22":35x77n0o said:
About a month ago the board had a real long discussion about toplines. I got this catalog through an email. While thumbing through it, I noticed the rather "un-ideal" rear toplines of the two otherwise good Angus cows. One is the cow in the top left picture the other is the bottom left picture. They were Mother and daughter (the dam and grandams of lots 42 and 43). I am not knocking these cows. Neither have cull level bad tops; but it is certainly something you notice in the pics. It just struck me just how that much that structure passed so perfectly to the next generation. If anything the daughters top is worse than her dam's. I wonder if it passed to lots 42 and 43. We are more focused now on EPDs, performance numbers, and now DNA marker testing; but structure is still 60 to 70% inheritable.

http://www.angusjournal.com/salebooks/b ... ll/36.jpeg
Could that be one of the reasons why calving ease bulls are so important? I agree with your post except for the culling part. If the pins are to high to calf easley that would be reason enough to cull in my openion. I'm to dang old to be pulling calves, and sure not going to sit up all night and watch.
 
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Brandonm22

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novatech":2g9ywuhd said:
Could that be one of the reasons why calving ease bulls are so important? I agree with your post except for the culling part. If the pins are to high to calf easley that would be reason enough to cull in my openion. I'm to dang old to be pulling calves, and sure not going to sit up all night and watch.

You are probably right about the need to breed them (as heifers) to some Angus calving ease trait leader. Just looking at the pics though, I suspect that they were NOT lightweight heifers. Sheer size of the mama can be beneficial in getting that first calf on the ground. I am not as down on them as you and Knersie; but you really have to wonder how long either cow could hold up in an environment where they really had to do a lot of walking to get water and vittles. The big question I have is how do you sell bulls with tops like that? Better get them gone as yearlings. However the owner was apparently impressed enough with them that became the basis for a whole cow family.
 

Herefords.US

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I've been noting that many cows with this type of topline also appear to be really heavily muscled. Is there possibly a correlation between the two?

George
 

George Monk

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I would take 3-4 in a heart beat. The 44 cow is not so appealing. The two EXT mommas are excellent. I would agree with the 42 cow's topline but look at the depth of muscle in that gal! She brings a lot of good to the table! Some corrective breeding should get you some spectacular animals.
Could the topline in the 43 cow be sagging a little due to age possibly?
 
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Brandonm22

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George Monk":112jqdft said:
I would take 3-4 in a heart beat. The 44 cow is not so appealing. The two EXT mommas are excellent. I would agree with the 42 cow's topline but look at the depth of muscle in that gal! She brings a lot of good to the table! Some corrective breeding should get you some spectacular animals.
Could the topline in the 43 cow be sagging a little due to age possibly?

Actually we don't have a pic of lot 42, 43, 44, or 45. The 1905 cow in the top lefthand photo started the cow family of the other 3 pictured cows. Those 3 cows are the mothers of lots 42, 43, 44, and 45. I am sure they crossed the 579L cow (in the bottom left pic) to EXT largely because of the topline issue.
 
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