Top seed clover (white/red)

[tncattle]

I'm in southern middle Tn. and I was just told by one of the UT specialist to top seed white?red clover instead fertilizing with N this ear. She said the clover will produce more N in the long haul for in the soil and will save you $ as well. She also said it would probably cheaper to top seed also now instead of fertilizing. She said Feb. is the time to top seed the clover in this area and lime as necessary. Obviously cattle do well on clover. Anyone do this lately? She said expect the clover to come up in late spring or early summer.

 

[dun]

To frost seed clover you need a number of conditions. Short or open grass, some precip and a series of freezing and thawing nights that will work the seed into the soil. It will start a little later the nthe grass and will be shaded pretty much until you graze/mow the grass, then it will come on like gangbusters. In thos area ladino/white clovers don;t do well but the reds reseed and will be around for years as long as it's mnaged properly

 

[shaz]

I'm in southern middle Tn. and I was just told by one of the UT specialist to top seed white?red clover instead fertilizing with N this ear. She said the clover will produce more N in the long haul for in the soil and will save you $ as well. She also said it would probably cheaper to top seed also now instead of fertilizing. She said Feb. is the time to top seed the clover in this area and lime as necessary. Obviously cattle do well on clover. Anyone do this lately? She said expect the clover to come up in late spring or early summer.

I have the most sucess drilling clover in the spring. Seems like white clover does better.

 

[Bigfoot]

Better get started seeding right away. If you could catch a snow would be best. Better stick with the white.

 

[tncattle]

If we top seed clover now when can we expect the added benefit of N from the clover? In other words will we be okay without adding N fertilizer this spring and instead just planting the clover? Also, does Grazon kill clover?

 

[dun]

If we top seed clover now when can we expect the added benefit of N from the clover? In other words will we be okay without adding N fertilizer this spring and instead just planting the clover? Also, does Grazon kill clover?

If the clover i properly inoculated you will see the nitrogen when the part of the plant dies that has the nodules on it. The problem with adding nitrogen is that the grasses will outgrow the clover which will cause th clover to get growing well. Grazon kills clover, at least it does the wild dutch white we have around here.

 

[tncattle]

If we top seed clover now when can we expect the added benefit of N from the clover? In other words will we be okay without adding N fertilizer this spring and instead just planting the clover? Also, does Grazon kill clover?

If the clover i properly inoculated you will see the nitrogen when the part of the plant dies that has the nodules on it. The problem with adding nitrogen is that the grasses will outgrow the clover which will cause th clover to get growing well. Grazon kills clover, at least it does the wild dutch white we have around here.

Bear with me Dun, I'm not sure I understand your post. Are you saying that the grasses will outgrow the clover but will make the clover grow well? That sounds both good. Also, I don't fully understand your statement on the N coming from the clover when the part of the plant dies that has nodules on it. Will we get the needed N this year for the soil from clover planted right now?

 

[Stocker Steve]

To frost seed clover you need a number of conditions. Short or open grass, some precip and a series of freezing and thawing nights that will work the seed into the soil. It will start a little later the nthe grass and will be shaded pretty much until you graze/mow the grass, then it will come on like gangbusters. In thos area ladino/white clovers don;t do well but the reds reseed and will be around for years as long as it's mnaged properly

Need to fall graze down to the roots, and even then you will get a good catch about 50% of the time when the weather is right.

 

[JSCATTLE]

You will start seeing the effects of the clover next year . The part of the plant that has to die also has to decompose . As far as putting nitrogen out now the grass will out grow the clover and shade it out . It will also help to get the nitrogen from the clover by being eaten and pooped onto the field by the cows .

 

[dun]

Here's the deal.Clover releases the nitrogen from the nodules on it's root when the plant dies or the part that has the nodules on the roots die. Nitrogen when planting will give the grass a faster growth start and it will shade the clover so the clover won;t do as well. Once the grass is clipped/mowed/grazed the clover will take off and be able to compete. But there won;t be any nitorgen from it right away. I wish Jim Gerrish still posted on here, he can explain all that stuff better then anyone I've ever seen. Maybe a google for gerrish clover would turn something up

 

[ANAZAZI]

Let us put it like this: The year you plant the clover, you must not fertilize with nitrogen, because then the grass will outgrow the clover.
This first summer, only the clover will benefit from its selfmade nitrogen.
The next summer the grass will benefit from it too, because of decomposing root matter and cows distributing the clover nitro through urine and dung.

 

[tncattle]

Let us put it like this: The year you plant the clover, you must not fertilize with nitrogen, because then the grass will outgrow the clover.
This first summer, only the clover will benefit from its selfmade nitrogen.
The next summer the grass will benefit from it too, because of decomposing root matter and cows distributing the clover nitro through urine and dung.

Got it! Thanks Dun and Anazazi

I Googled Jim Gerrish and there is tons of good info!

 

[novatech]

There is very little Nitrogen in the root system as compared to the leaf. On way to recover the Nitrogen is to graze it. Some N will be in the fecal matter but most will be in the urine. If left ungrazed then it should be turned under like most other cover crops. If it is left on top just to decompose much of the N can volatilize into the air. It is similar to the difference in adding browns and greens into a compost pile. Clover will fix nitrogen when there is not ample nitrogen in the soil but when there is it no longer produces Nitrogen. Up to 30 lbs per acre is recommended to get it off to a good start if needed.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Clover will fix nitrogen when there is not ample nitrogen in the soil but when there is it no longer produces Nitrogen. Up to 30 lbs per acre is recommended to get it off to a good start if needed.

Some folks talk about how lots of fertilizer makes the soil "lazy."
In Wisconsin they measured reductions in the clover stand density if more than 40# of N was used per application.
Have you seen any data like this on P&K levels, or P&K applications?

 

[tncattle]

There is very little Nitrogen in the root system as compared to the leaf. On way to recover the Nitrogen is to graze it. Some N will be in the fecal matter but most will be in the urine. If left ungrazed then it should be turned under like most other cover crops. If it is left on top just to decompose much of the N can volatilize into the air. It is similar to the difference in adding browns and greens into a compost pile. Clover will fix nitrogen when there is not ample nitrogen in the soil but when there is it no longer produces Nitrogen. Up to 30 lbs per acre is recommended to get it off to a good start if needed.

Are you saying 30 lbs. of clover per acre or 30 lbs. of N per acre?

 

[novatech]

There is very little Nitrogen in the root system as compared to the leaf. On way to recover the Nitrogen is to graze it. Some N will be in the fecal matter but most will be in the urine. If left ungrazed then it should be turned under like most other cover crops. If it is left on top just to decompose much of the N can volatilize into the air. It is similar to the difference in adding browns and greens into a compost pile. Clover will fix nitrogen when there is not ample nitrogen in the soil but when there is it no longer produces Nitrogen. Up to 30 lbs per acre is recommended to get it off to a good start if needed.

Are you saying 30 lbs. of clover per acre or 30 lbs. of N per acre?

30 lbs N.
I have never bothered. It is something I have read.
I don't plant clover anymore either. I found the native burr medic did a better job than anything I could plant.