Top Bulls for Females

[SchenkAngusFarm]

I've been to a lot of sales this fall and it seems to me that ignoring maternal traits (I know that significantly impacts price), the top selling females are coming out of:

Discovery
Resource
1682
Bismark
Rampage

Is anyone else seeing anything different? Just curious because I am getting ready to do some flushing and wanted to see what others thought.

 

[Tbrake]

That discovery bull sure impressed me. I hadn't heard of him before. I may use him on some cows this spring. Growth, Caracas, and strong on the maternal side. Hard to beat

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

I guess my question is why are people buying females and ignoring maternal traits? So you can breed a top 1% $B to another top 1% $B and get a top 1% $B steer? What are you going to do when she actually has another female? Keep ignoring the maternal traits?

 

[Chocolate Cow]

artesianspring-if she turns out the way her EPD's read, she'll fall out of the herd before anyone gets to experience the daughters.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

artesianspring-if she turns out the way her EPD's read, she'll fall out of the herd before anyone gets to experience the daughters.

But she will taste real good!

In all seriousness, I just don't get it. I have to stop people and ask what they mean when they say "maternal" now. Most times they just look at a number, like high milk, and decide that means maternal. God forbid they look at the cow and the cow's dam, and her dam before her.

 

[Luckiamute]

I've seen Connealy Black Granite daughters, or heifers bred to Black Granite, sell consistently well at a couple of purebred sales I've attended. Otherwise, I've seen lots of high and lows from a number of bulls, including Discovery, Tex X, Bismarck (mostly his granddaughters), Resource and Renown, Sitz Investment, PVF Insight, etc. Haven't seen any 1682 daughters sell; I think his semen is very high now.

 

[Ebenezer]

Question: are you breeding cows to bulls or cows to names? Names will be gone or changed in a month or year. You're stuck with the results until you pound them out if they are duds. Maternal is not high milk. High milk is production costs. First question you need to ask yourself (noted that you are tagged as a "beginner" with 6 posts), "What cows work best in my environment and management". That will eliminate about 95% of all potential purchased genetics and then find a sensible mentor to help you see the complete qualities of the cattle that work best in your environment. Most catalogs have cattle that will not work in normal situations. How have you found and identified flush quality cows yet ask folks like me about bulls to use? Just curious. When in doubt, use a son of your "best" cow.

 

[SchenkAngusFarm]

I guess my question is why are people buying females and ignoring maternal traits? So you can breed a top 1% $B to another top 1% $B and get a top 1% $B steer? What are you going to do when she actually has another female? Keep ignoring the maternal traits?

I'm not really sure but the Discovery females seem to be taking top prices. Here in Kentucky they sold really well as the Black Gold Sale and a few others.

Every cattlemen I have talked to loves them and the numbers seem to be right. I get what you are saying though.

 

[SchenkAngusFarm]

Question: are you breeding cows to bulls or cows to names? Names will be gone or changed in a month or year. You're stuck with the results until you pound them out if they are duds. Maternal is not high milk. High milk is production costs. First question you need to ask yourself (noted that you are tagged as a "beginner" with 6 posts), "What cows work best in my environment and management". That will eliminate about 95% of all potential purchased genetics and then find a sensible mentor to help you see the complete qualities of the cattle that work best in your environment. Most catalogs have cattle that will not work in normal situations. How have you found and identified flush quality cows yet ask folks like me about bulls to use? Just curious. When in doubt, use a son of your "best" cow.

Thanks for the response.

I'm certainly not the best cattleman on here but I've actually been in the business ten years. It just took my a long time to find my way to the forum.

We've put a lot of money into our operation and have what I consider to be a strong herd. We run about 50 commercial and 50 registered. We are going using most of the commercials as recips.

I have identified the females to flush based on a number of factors. Numbers certainly play a part in that.

I was really just curious as to what people were seeing in terms of sale prices in sales in other parts of the country. Most sale reports give you limited information. I have a pretty good sense on what is selling here in Kentucky, Tennessee and Ohio but was just seeing how the response was in other parts of the country. I've liked the way the Discovery females have looked as well as Black Granite but wanted to see some others responses.

I am also planning on doing some flushing to Right Time and EXT as I have some straws left over.

 

[Ebenezer]

Most important question for me: function and useful life span when they get to the new home. Price is of no consequence if the great bull of a great bull goes lame at 3 YO. If you look to see what sells this year at other sales you will always be a generation behind the named bull leaders heading down the tunnel. I'd rather have good feet and legs, functioning fertility, good temperament and adaptability rather than herd prefixes or bull names. I can sleep at night if I offer function to buyers. Just me.

 

[SchenkAngusFarm]

Most important question for me: function and useful life span when they get to the new home. Price is of no consequence if the great bull of a great bull goes lame at 3 YO. If you look to see what sells this year at other sales you will always be a generation behind the named bull leaders heading down the tunnel. I'd rather have good feet and legs, functioning fertility, good temperament and adaptability rather than herd prefixes or bull names. I can sleep at night if I offer function to buyers. Just me.

That's great advice.

I'm actually doing a lot to some of the older names that I like Bushwackek (my personal favorite for females), Bismark, Right Time, EXT and then will use some of the newer stuff as well.

You are correct that it is hard to keep up with the trends.

 

[bse]

In my opinion if you stick with Right Time and EXT you will get some great females. The down side no market for bulls out of them.
I'm flushing and breeding with all sexed semen, gonna go back to making females , may not sell that $100,000 dollar heifer but nobody really does.

 

[Air gator]

SchenkAngusFarm,
You don't need to justify what bull you choose to breed to or how you choose them.
I have also noticed that Discovery is selling well in a LOT of different sales. So, you assume that buyers value
them because they are good. And I have heard good things from people who actually have Discovery calves.
Lots of growth but on the Accelerated Genetics page it notes Discoverys lack capacity.
I try not to go with too much growth.
As far as maternal his family is pretty strong in my opinion....same family as Deer Valley All In.
One bull missing off your list is Coleman Charlo. A lot of breeders like him.

 

[SchenkAngusFarm]

SchenkAngusFarm,
You don't need to justify what bull you choose to breed to or how you choose them.
I have also noticed that Discovery is selling well in a LOT of different sales. So, you assume that buyers value
them because they are good. And I have heard good things from people who actually have Discovery calves.
Lots of growth but on the Accelerated Genetics page it notes Discoverys lack capacity.
I try not to go with too much growth.
As far as maternal his family is pretty strong in my opinion....same family as Deer Valley All In.
One bull missing off your list is Coleman Charlo. A lot of breeders like him.

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the feedback.

You also bring up a great point about Charlo. I only have one cow out of his that I bought as a heifer calf combo but she's looking pretty good.

I don't have any Charlo in my tank but I may go ahead and order some. Thanks again.

 

[SchenkAngusFarm]

In my opinion if you stick with Right Time and EXT you will get some great females. The down side no market for bulls out of them.
I'm flushing and breeding with all sexed semen, gonna go back to making females , may not sell that $100,000 dollar heifer but nobody really does.

Yeah, I have quite a bit of Rampage and Bismarck female sexed semen. I am going to use some of that in my flushes. I've liked what I've seen so far. I usually don't use the female sexed semen when I am just breeding them though because of the price and it doesn't seem to take as well for me for some reason.

 

[bse]

Used some sexed, in the spring, and a few single shots here and there. I got along well with it, may wind up a disaster in Dec. But they tell you to wait a little longer with it before breeding 18 hrs seemed to work so far.

 

[Luckiamute]

I've usually had real good success with sexed semen. The key for me has been breeding on natural heats rather then using timed AI or some synch protocol. We also now inseminate somewhere around 16 to 20 hours or so after observing standing heat based on the new recommendations. I have a small herd, so observing natural heats is fairly easy as long as I am home part of the day, but this year we bred six (4 cows and 2 heifers) using female sexed semen obtained from ST Genetics. Five of the six conceived on the first try, and the one that missed (a heifer) took on the second try. I think that is a great conception rate and I continue to be happy with sexed semen.

 

[SchenkAngusFarm]

I've usually had real good success with sexed semen. The key for me has been breeding on natural heats rather then using timed AI or some synch protocol. We also now inseminate somewhere around 16 to 20 hours or so after observing standing heat based on the new recommendations. I have a small herd, so observing natural heats is fairly easy as long as I am home part of the day, but this year we bred six (4 cows and 2 heifers) using female sexed semen obtained from ST Genetics. Five of the six conceived on the first try, and the one that missed (a heifer) took on the second try. I think that is a great conception rate and I continue to be happy with sexed semen.

That's a really strong success rate. 5/6 is a homerun in my opinion.

Which sexed semen are you using if you don't mind me asking.

 

[Luckiamute]

Connealy Concord and MGR Treasure.

 

[Luckiamute]

I've usually had real good success with sexed semen. The key for me has been breeding on natural heats rather then using timed AI or some synch protocol. We also now inseminate somewhere around 16 to 20 hours or so after observing standing heat based on the new recommendations. I have a small herd, so observing natural heats is fairly easy as long as I am home part of the day, but this year we bred six (4 cows and 2 heifers) using female sexed semen obtained from ST Genetics. Five of the six conceived on the first try, and the one that missed (a heifer) took on the second try. I think that is a great conception rate and I continue to be happy with sexed semen.

That's a really strong success rate. 5/6 is a homerun in my opinion.

Which sexed semen are you using if you don't mind me asking.

Connealy Concord and MGR Treasure.