Too much white- Hereford

[Alan]

I have, and have seen Hereford cattle with much more white on them. Such as white coming up the belly higher then most, down the neck or a dorsal strip down to or near the tail head. I know they are looking for pigment around the eyes these days but what would some of you consider is too much white on a Hereford? And why would too much white be undisirable?

I have already guessed some would say any if it's not all black

Thanks,
Alan

 

[jnowack]

I think a lot of it has to do with breed character. Herfords are supposed to have white in certain places and not in other places. I havn't raised herfords for several years, but when I did, our commercial bull buyers seemed to prefer the ones that had less white on them and that were darker red colored.

 

[KMacGinley]

It used to be that Lineback herefords were discriminated against, I think that has changed maybe.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

One of the discriminating factors against an over-abundance of white, particularly on the face and udder is the tendency for the animal to contract pink-eye, and sunburned udders - which causes the Mama Cow to kick the calf away fron nursing because it hurts her. Also because of certain "Breed" idiosyncrasies and a particular breeder's personal preferences.

DOC HARRIS

 

[Frankie]

I have, and have seen Hereford cattle with much more white on them. Such as white coming up the belly higher then most, down the neck or a dorsal strip down to or near the tail head. I know they are looking for pigment around the eyes these days but what would some of you consider is too much white on a Hereford? And why would too much white be undisirable?

I have already guessed some would say any if it's not all black

Thanks,
Alan

I've been watching the Star Lake Hereford sale off and on today and noticed many of the cattle have a lot of white, especially up on their sides. The white on several of their faces looks more like a baldie than a Hereford. They just sold one that wasn't even red. She looked like a brown baldie, not like I remembered registered Herefords looking. She sold for $2600, so what do I know?

Alan, don't forget the Black Herefords. ;-)

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Ah, yes, Frankie! I have been watching the Star Lake Hereford Sale almost ALL morning, except when I have switched over to the Pimlico Horse races running prior to the Preakness, and IMO this ranch is displaying some of the best Hereford Genetics I have seen for some time!

And in talking about the amount of white being shown - I think the "juggling Genes" that the Hereford breeder's have done in the past has minimized the demonstrable white on the neck and spine line and concentrated it in the "White Face" and underline.

BUT - the Phenotype that this particular ranch has going for it is a quantum leap in the Hereford Breed from what it was twenty some years ago, and I think that it is a real bonus for those breeders who are crossbreeding and looking for Maternal traits and docility in their cow herds, along with improved
EPD's for Carcass traits. My hat is off to the Hereford Breeder's for really taking their business seriously!

DOC HARRIS

 

[rwtherefords]

IMO, I think all Herefords calved that would not be considered to have the the classic Hereford markings by reasonable people, should be culled just like one would cull for bad udders, etc. Herefords, as a breed, have a "certain" look. Those which, by appearance, would make one wonder if they're crossbreeds, have no business being sold as registered stock, just as one shouldn't sell a Hereford carrying a dilluter gene as registered stock.

I expect that all registered Black Angus have a certain appearance, just as I expect all registered Herefords to have a certain appearance. Breeders have a responsibility to maintain the integrity of whatever breed they have chosen. Appearance is part of what makes a certain breed, that breed.

 

[Anonymous]

I dont like much white on my herefords...no particular reason...just like my herefords to be mostly red...I like rednecked herefords also...and from my experience...the few herefords i've had with a lot of white on them seemed to bring less money

 

[Brandonm2]

IMO, I think all Herefords calved that would not be considered to have the the classic Hereford markings by reasonable people, should be culled just like one would cull for bad udders, etc. Herefords, as a breed, have a "certain" look. Those which, by appearance, would make one wonder if they're crossbreeds, have no business being sold as registered stock

I disagree. I have had rednecked Herefords and Herefords with a complete line of white prominently displayed down the length of the neck. I have also had Hereford with 4 red legs and Herefords that had white on all four feet. At the end of the day I have no preference. I have never found where markings or the lack of markings made one cow better than another. IF a rednecked or a feather necked cow is the top mama cow in the herd by all means keep and promote her calves

 

[rwtherefords]

IMO, I think all Herefords calved that would not be considered to have the the classic Hereford markings by reasonable people, should be culled just like one would cull for bad udders, etc. Herefords, as a breed, have a "certain" look. Those which, by appearance, would make one wonder if they're crossbreeds, have no business being sold as registered stock

I disagree. I have had rednecked Herefords and Herefords with a complete line of white prominently displayed down the length of the neck. I have also had Hereford with 4 red legs and Herefords that had white on all four feet. At the end of the day I have no preference. I have never found where markings or the lack of markings made one cow better than another. IF a rednecked or a feather necked cow is the top mama cow in the herd by all means keep and promote her calves

I never said color markings made a better cow? I would think that if you're going to disagree with me, at least you'd disagree about a point I made, and not on the basis of some other point not related to my post. Your example of your poorly marked top cow is fine. Breed her to a bull that can correct her fault just like you would any other fault that you wish to improve. If the heifer calf meets the breed standard, sell her as registered stock, otherwise she's commercial grade, in my opinion. If conformity to breed standards doesn't bother you, you can raise a field full of muts too.

Cattle breeds have characteristics which distinguish one breed from another. Cattle that don't exhibit the traits of their breed are "defective" relative to that breeds' standard. Surely we can improve maternal traits and docility in our registered cow herds, along with improved EPD's for carcass traits without compromising that breeds distinguishing appearance. If color doesn't matter maybe we'll have black Herefords, or all black Holsteins, or better yet, black Red Angus. Oh, I almost forgot, we already have Black Herefords!

If your disagreement with me is that you don't think color or markings have a place in defining registered breed stock, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion just as I am mine. I happen to think color and marking have a place in defining registered breeds.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have, and have seen Hereford cattle with much more white on them. Such as white coming up the belly higher then most, down the neck or a dorsal strip down to or near the tail head. I know they are looking for pigment around the eyes these days but what would some of you consider is too much white on a Hereford? And why would too much white be undisirable?

I have already guessed some would say any if it's not all black

Thanks,
Alan

I've been watching the Star Lake Hereford sale off and on today and noticed many of the cattle have a lot of white, especially up on their sides. The white on several of their faces looks more like a baldie than a Hereford. They just sold one that wasn't even red. She looked like a brown baldie, not like I remembered registered Herefords looking. She sold for $2600, so what do I know?

Alan, don't forget the Black Herefords. ;-)

Frankie there used to be a lot of yellow herefords kinda like red and black Angus. You see the yellow in the old lines more. Breeders have been going after the red in the last few years.

 

[Brandonm2]

If your disagreement with me is that you don't think color or markings have a place in defining registered breed stock, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion just as I am mine. I happen to think color and marking have a place in defining registered breeds.

Your clearly in the minority. I have seen Herfs advertised in the Hereford World in just the last year that even I would have disqualified as obviously Fleckvieh influenced. Ignoring the Fleckvieh appearing Herefords, we have LONG had a lot of diversity in the Hereford breed. Caustic is right and "yellow" Herefords (I thought they looked more tan than yellow) used to be common around here and I know we had some "red necked" Herefords in this herd 30 years ago so don't see that as a "NEW" development. And we used to have several heavily "freckled" Herefords. Are those to be bred for or bred against in your selecting for color patterns plan??? Star Lake advertised a bull with white up into the shoulder last year. I don't see any reason to cut or disqualify that bull even though it would not be my preference. Breeding good quality cattle that will work on the range, in the feedlot, at the packer, and on the plate is hard enough without decreasing your gene pool by worrying about whether or not a breeding animal has too much or not enough white on the neck. I find that whole debate to be completely silly. IF YOUR regular buyers tell you to get rid of the white on the neck or that they like goggle eyes or vice versa, then give them what they want. Unless there is some market demand for more or less white it is not something I would even suggest someone considering in breeding decisions.

 

[dun]

Unless there is some market demand for more or less white it is not something I would even suggest someone considering in breeding decisions.

Well said!

dun