too much corn

[coolwater]

yesterday 2 of my heifers and a 9 month old bull got into the feed barn busted into a bag of corn.the heifers didnt get as much as the bull did.they have a littlre diarea.the bull however was way sicker.my son and i managed to rope him and get him down while my wife and daughter drenched him with baking soda and water to counter any acidosis.gave him a shot of la 200 while i had him down.he really had the scours.went to town and got some scour tablets and the pink stuff and some electrolytes booster.we roped him again and got him down 2nd time drenched him with electrolytes,pink stuff and scour tabs.visited the pasture 4 times last night and made him get up and walk.kept looking for extension of his side but never happened.this morning found him eating red clay.gave him some hay.he looks very much better this morning.im wondering about the clay bit.wondering what impact if any it will have on him.i let him eat as much as he would of it.maybe he will get need minerals from it i dont know.any advice on the clay?

 

[LonghornRanch]

I am confused? Are you talking about "bloat" from eating corn or " scours". Why would you give a shot of LA 200 for either one?

 

[coolwater]

I am confused? Are you talking about "bloat" from eating corn or " scours". Why would you give a shot of LA 200 for either one?

didnt administer la 200 for either.i looked back at my post and realized i didnt iclude that he had cut his hoof on some tin.for a couple days the closest i could get to him was to sray some anti foot rot on his hoof.i havent had him very long and hes almost unapproachable.he wasnt bloated.i gave him a baking soda drench to prevent acidosis.too much starch/sugars causes this such as his eating too much corn.i gave him tablets to relieve the scours.just checked an hour ago and he was slowly eating hay and on a mineral block.he is looking better.

 

[warpaint]

Earlier, I was gonna say something about his eating clay to get the taste of the pink stuff out of his mouth, but didn't want to make light of your troubles. Glad to hear he's doing better. ;-)

 

[coolwater]

Earlier, I was gonna say something about his eating clay to get the taste of the pink stuff out of his mouth, but didn't want to make light of your troubles. Glad to hear he's doing better. ;-)

yeah war paint i agree with ya.i dont like either.my dog got the squirts once and i dosed her with it.ya should of seen her with the pink froth coming from her mouth and she was snarling and showing those massive fangs[german shep/curr mix]she looked like some kind of physco vampire horror movie dog gone mad.now my wife teases her with the bottle.this happened a couple years ago and to this day she runs from the pink bottle. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[milkmaid]

Sounds like you made the right choice.

Way it was explained to me by a vet, is that a cow with acidosis will, as time goes on (in hours) past initial grain consumption, have such an acidic rumen concentration that first all the "good" bacteria die, and then if it continues, all the "bad" bacteria die. The blood pH drops and internal organs (may?) shut down. He did comment that, if they're still alive, they go UP - back to alkaline. And at that point, you have to bring the rumen back to acidic and give probiotic. So depending on where they are on the time line depends on how you treat them.

If you can catch them immediately after consumption, which of course would be ideal, you'd use mineral oil and sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). If more time has passed and the good bacteria have died off, but not the bad bacteria, you'd want to treat with an oral antibiotic as well as sodium bicarbonate. The antibiotic (suggested spectinomycin aka Spectam) takes about 6 hours to really do anything; in the meantime you're trying to restore proper rumen pH with the bicarb. No sense in putting probiotic in until proper rumen pH is restored, as the extremely acidic environment kills off the bacteria.

Now if you're at the point of the cow coming back up - to alkaline - and to alkalosis, then you'd bring them back down to acidic with something like vinegar. Suggested apple cider vinegar.

So you make a guess as to where the cow is at on that timeline, mess around with the pH of the rumen, and try to get the right level.

Sodium bicarb also comes in an injectable 8.4% IV solution and that would be a faster way of correcting the low pH levels, so long as a person didn't give too much and bump them over to alkalosis.

Activated charcoal absorbs toxins in the gut, and I wouldn't be too surprised if clay does as well. Perhaps that bull knows what he needs? LOL. I'm going to guess the "pink stuff" is Kaolin Pectin? That has a similar action to activated charcoal; binding with toxins.

I'd guess that you made the right choice - even if inadvertently - with antibiotics and sodium bicarb and electrolytes - and he sounds like he's on his way back to normal.

 

[coolwater]

Sounds like you made the right choice.

Way it was explained to me by a vet, is that a cow with acidosis will, as time goes on (in hours) past initial grain consumption, have such an acidic rumen concentration that first all the "good" bacteria die, and then if it continues, all the "bad" bacteria die. The blood pH drops and internal organs (may?) shut down. He did comment that, if they're still alive, they go UP - back to alkaline. And at that point, you have to bring the rumen back to acidic and give probiotic. So depending on where they are on the time line depends on how you treat them.

If you can catch them immediately after consumption, which of course would be ideal, you'd use mineral oil and sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). If more time has passed and the good bacteria have died off, but not the bad bacteria, you'd want to treat with an oral antibiotic as well as sodium bicarbonate. The antibiotic (suggested spectinomycin aka Spectam) takes about 6 hours to really do anything; in the meantime you're trying to restore proper rumen pH with the bicarb. No sense in putting probiotic in until proper rumen pH is restored, as the extremely acidic environment kills off the bacteria.

Now if you're at the point of the cow coming back up - to alkaline - and to alkalosis, then you'd bring them back down to acidic with something like vinegar. Suggested apple cider vinegar.

So you make a guess as to where the cow is at on that timeline, mess around with the pH of the rumen, and try to get the right level.

Sodium bicarb also comes in an injectable 8.4% IV solution and that would be a faster way of correcting the low pH levels, so long as a person didn't give too much and bump them over to alkalosis.

Activated charcoal absorbs toxins in the gut, and I wouldn't be too surprised if clay does as well. Perhaps that bull knows what he needs? LOL. I'm going to guess the "pink stuff" is Kaolin Pectin? That has a similar action to activated charcoal; binding with toxins.

I'd guess that you made the right choice - even if inadvertently - with antibiotics and sodium bicarb and electrolytes - and he sounds like he's on his way back to normal.

yeah milkmaid i hope so.im just a dumb farmer learning everyday.looked at a link thogh about clay.it helped me understand the bull eating the clay.mother nature gives these animals a sense to help themselves.ive tried understanding the rumen process and the ph levels and get lost along the way.over my head a bit.but he does seem to be better.i dont normally feed whole corn.had a couple bags left from deer season.ive been putting a little in their feed to get it gone without wasting it and not feeding too much as to upset their diet.that was the only feed that wasnt locked in a barrel.just my lick huh?it always happens when the weather is bad..is raing andcold with the temp continuing to dropp.

 

[buckaroo_bif]

agh, i wouldn't worry about him he'll be allright if he's munching on hay.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

agh, i wouldn't worry about him he'll be allright if he's munching on hay.

I agree with bif- As long as he is eating hay/grass he'll be fine in a couple of days. I believe the critical period is behind you. You handled it very well. In a few days, if he is not eating well, give him a dose of Probiotic paste to restore the rumen flora. This probably will not be necessary.

Good luck & best regards

Brock