too high BW EPD on heifers

[Dee]

I am in a state of panic! I bred my PFred heifers to Alliance I87, who at the time of breeding had a BW EPD of +0.3 with a Acc. .58 and a CED of +8 with an acc. of .42. Now I was looking at ABS global's web site and Alliance has moved to a +3.0 BW with an Acc of .86 and a CED of .2. How can it change that drastically???????????

 

[El_Putzo]

I had the same question yesterday as I was updating my "Potential AI sire" spreadsheet. In exactly one year, PW Victor Boomer P606 has gone from about a +1 on CED and -1 on BW to now being a -11.5 CED and 5.7 BW. I realize that a lot of people used him in the last year, his accuracy jumped 15% in 6 months, but how do the numbers change so drastically? I was almost in your predicament as well, since I was heavily considering P606 for my heifers last spring. Something just told me that a negative BW and positive CED was too good to be true for a Remitall sired bull.

A wise man once said, "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is."

 

[Frankie]

I am in a state of panic! I bred my PFred heifers to Alliance I87, who at the time of breeding had a BW EPD of +0.3 with a Acc. .58 and a CED of +8 with an acc. of .42. Now I was looking at ABS global's web site and Alliance has moved to a +3.0 BW with an Acc of .86 and a CED of .2. How can it change that drastically???????????

In looking at his pedigree, I wouldn't panic (though I wouldn't use him on heifers). He's several generations deep in calving ease, EXT, 8180,Traveler 71, Bando 155.... Plus, those PFred heifers should be easy calving? With low accuracies, his EPDs can be moved by reporting only a few calves. If he was bred to cows with high BW EPDs, that'll show up until he gets higher accuracies numbers.

Take this to heart and use only proven bulls on heifers. When will they calve?

Here's his pedigree: http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 41445F474A

 

[TSR]

I am in a state of panic! I bred my PFred heifers to Alliance I87, who at the time of breeding had a BW EPD of +0.3 with a Acc. .58 and a CED of +8 with an acc. of .42. Now I was looking at ABS global's web site and Alliance has moved to a +3.0 BW with an Acc of .86 and a CED of .2. How can it change that drastically???????????

In looking at his pedigree, I wouldn't panic (though I wouldn't use him on heifers). He's several generations deep in calving ease, EXT, 8180,Traveler 71, Bando 155.... Plus, those PFred heifers should be easy calving? With low accuracies, his EPDs can be moved by reporting only a few calves. If he was bred to cows with high BW EPDs, that'll show up until he gets higher accuracies numbers.

Take this to heart and use only proven bulls on heifers. When will they calve?

Here's his pedigree: http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 41445F474A

When they will calve is also very important as Frankie has asked. If they will spend their last trimester in the hotter part of the year the calves should be somewhat smaller, so therefore easier calving. I have bred heifers to Angus bulls with greater than 3.0 on birthweight and have not had any problems. Remember that the conformation of the bull especially his shoulders (smooth shoulder or non smooth shoulders) will play a role in the delivery. I have just never thought one or two pounds difference in a bulls bw epd made that much difference, even in heifers. JMHO

 

[Anonymous]

Bred +6.5 to 25 first calf heifers had no problems. But it depends on the size of you'r heifers. These all weighed around 1200 lbs. when they calved.

 

[Dee]

They will start calving on Friday the 13th of January. So any time now. When I first looked at I87 he was a +2.0 then went down to a +0.3, now up to a +3.0. The PFred heifers averaged #990 at breeding time, which was last April, so I am sure they are pushing the #1200 mark. They seem fairly wide and "roomy" and they have alot of frame. The heifers averaged #68 at birth, and PFred had a -0.7 BW EPD. So I am hoping that will also help. At this point all I can do is hope for the best. I just figured if his BW EPD went down it would continue to go that direction, and not take a huge up swing!?!

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I am in a state of panic! I bred my PFred heifers to Alliance I87, who at the time of breeding had a BW EPD of +0.3 with a Acc. .58 and a CED of +8 with an acc. of .42. Now I was looking at ABS global's web site and Alliance has moved to a +3.0 BW with an Acc of .86 and a CED of .2. How can it change that drastically???????????

Dee-Take a deep breath and relax!! 87.59% (?) of the things we worry about NEVER come to pass! 12.40% are not as bad as they may first appear. The .01% that turns out to be terrible, isn't really worth getting upset over, because they really aren't THAT terrible!

This is a good example of why a thorough understanding of EPD's AND, PHENOTYPE and how they all must work together is mandatory for good herd management. It is why knowing the genetic background of the individuals (Sire and Dam) is helpful in keeping your "Panic Button" from being overworked needlessly! The EPD's of the Dam are just as important and functional as the Bull's. The more extensively a bull is utilized, the more his EPD's will change because of the EPD's of the females to whom he will be bred and his accuracies will be higher and more dependable in the future.

Emphasizing proper Herd Management Practices are imperative for optimal results. The Internet has literally reams and reams of information, suggestions, ideas and data on EVERY ASPECT of Beef Cattle Management, and in my opinion, every breeder should avail themselves of all this 'informational age' material for their own well-being.

Item: Proper nutrition, WATER, and exercise all play a critical role of successful parturition. If your heifers (and cows!) get plenty of walking - every day, their musculature and metabolism are in prime condition to overcome adversities - if any should arise. You may even have to arrange your feeding and watering practices so that they are FORCED to move about and keep those muscles in good tone. The very same activities are necessary for a pregnant woman to be able to give birth with as little discomfort and difficulties as possible. The GOOD news to this scenario is you don't have to be present to HELP the cow breathe, just be handy in case you are needed!

The other posts on this topic are well done. As I have said before on other posts, "Don't Panic! Don't Throw Out the Baby with The Bathwater".

DOC HARRIS

 

[bwranch]

Dee,

We have one I87 calf on the ground so far, out of a Fix It daughter, CED 5 BW 2.8. The heifer weighed in at 92 lbs, ratio at 110 so far. Good thing she was 4 days early. She was big but she popped out like a pumpkin seed and was up and rolling w/in 5 minutes. Fine looking heifer. Keep your chin up.

Lee

 

[Chuckie]

I like Pfred's numbers. I tried to buy a heifer out of him at a sale and as soon as the auctioneer started the bid, he closed it. I had no idea where he was since he started the bid real high and then lowered it and cut it off. Grrr! She was a nice heifer.
He has such a low BW and a high WW and it isn't coming from an over production of milk. Usually you see that kind of growth on the milk EPDs with high 20's and low 30's.
I think Pfred will lower the BW numbers and it will be OK.
Good luck.
Chuckie