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To Sprig or Not to Sprig

1982vett

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Can't help it. :oops: If you want coastal you are going to have to sprig. :p

What you want to use it for? Grazing or hay?
 

bigbull338

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sprigging coastal is the best way.youd need to sprigg 30 to 40bu to the ac.
 

lavacarancher

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I've always been told there's no such thing as Coastal Bermuda or Tifton 85 seed so it has to be sprigged. There are some types of Bermuda that DO have seeds, for example NK37 (Giant Bermuda) and I think Bohia has seeds and can be planted that way.
 

gabby

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If you decide to sprig, you have several good choices.

Back in April and May, I sprigged Coastal, Tift 85 and Russell a week or two apart, in that order.

Now it's been several weeks with pretty good rain and the Tift 85 and Russell runners have run a lot further than the Coastal. I don't think I will sprig any more Coastal.
 

Jogeephus

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gabby":2zboy1j7 said:
If you decide to sprig, you have several good choices.

Back in April and May, I sprigged Coastal, Tift 85 and Russell a week or two apart, in that order.

Now it's been several weeks with pretty good rain and the Tift 85 and Russell runners have run a lot further than the Coastal. I don't think I will sprig any more Coastal.

For personal reasons I am very biased toward T85 but I think you will find the cows prefer the Russell over the T85 if you graze it. Either of these two are wonderful grasses though.
 

edrsimms

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talldog":3szmco0u said:
Wanting to put in 8 more acres of Coastal Bermuda next year---What are your thoughts on sprigs or seed ???? :help:

Planting any type of Bermuda this day and time of high fertilizer prices is just nonsense.

To Sprig or Not to Sprig (8 acres)

Tift 85

Planting Cost $75/acre (once)
Good Stand 2 yrs
Fertilizer Cost $500/acre (hay) (3) cuttings
Fertilizer Cost $200/acre (pasture) grazing/yr
Lime Cost $35/acre/yr
Weed Control $15/acre
Grazing 1 to 2 cow/calf units/acre
Crude Protein (grazing) 11%
TDN Percent 50% > 55%
Water Requirements High
$167/Cow/calf Unit (12 cows)

Tiff Leaf 3 Millet

Planting Cost $35/acre/yr
Good Stand 30 days
Fertilizer Cost $0/acre/yr (hay)
Fertilizer Cost grazing/yr $65/acre/yr
Lime Cost $35/acre every 3rd year
Weed Control $0/acre/yr
Grazing 8 cow/calf units/acre
Crude Protein (grazing) 17%
TDN Percent 70%
Water Requirements Low
$18.50/Cow/calf Unit (12 cows)


Even omitting the one time planting cost and the 2 yrs of waiting to have a weed free stand, Bermuda for grazing will cost you $250/acre/yr (250 x 8 = $2000) with an average stocking rate of 1.5 cow calf units per acre that equals:
12 cow/calf units total.
Cost for grazing those 12 cows between April and first frost is $167 per cow/calf unit.

Tiff Leaf 3 even having to re-plant it yearly will cost you $111/acre (111 x 2 = $222) with an average stocking rate of 6 cow/calf units per acre that equals:
12 cow/calf units total.
Cost for grazing those 12 cows between May and first frost is $18.50 per cow/calf.

A savings of $148.50 per cow calf unit BY NOT SPRIGGING
I can be available to come plant 2 acres of Tiff leaf 3 Millet for you for $2000. You might as well pay me the money than the fertilizer company unless you own it. Or better yet keep planting permanent pasture and buy stock in your local fertilizer co-op.
 

talldog

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edrsimms":3er3dftp said:
talldog":3er3dftp said:
Wanting to put in 8 more acres of Coastal Bermuda next year---What are your thoughts on sprigs or seed ???? :help:

Planting any type of Bermuda this day and time of high fertilizer prices is just nonsense.

To Sprig or Not to Sprig (8 acres)

Tift 85

Planting Cost $75/acre (once)
Good Stand 2 yrs
Fertilizer Cost $500/acre (hay) (3) cuttings
Fertilizer Cost $200/acre (pasture) grazing/yr
Lime Cost $35/acre/yr
Weed Control $15/acre
Grazing 1 to 2 cow/calf units/acre
Crude Protein (grazing) 11%
TDN Percent 50% > 55%
Water Requirements High
$167/Cow/calf Unit (12 cows)

Tiff Leaf 3 Millet

Planting Cost $35/acre/yr
Good Stand 30 days
Fertilizer Cost $0/acre/yr (hay)
Fertilizer Cost grazing/yr $65/acre/yr
Lime Cost $35/acre every 3rd year
Weed Control $0/acre/yr
Grazing 8 cow/calf units/acre
Crude Protein (grazing) 17%
TDN Percent 70%
Water Requirements Low
$18.50/Cow/calf Unit (12 cows)


Even omitting the one time planting cost and the 2 yrs of waiting to have a weed free stand, Bermuda for grazing will cost you $250/acre/yr (250 x 8 = $2000) with an average stocking rate of 1.5 cow calf units per acre that equals:
12 cow/calf units total.
Cost for grazing those 12 cows between April and first frost is $167 per cow/calf unit.

Tiff Leaf 3 even having to re-plant it yearly will cost you $111/acre (111 x 2 = $222) with an average stocking rate of 6 cow/calf units per acre that equals:
12 cow/calf units total.
Cost for grazing those 12 cows between May and first frost is $18.50 per cow/calf.

A savings of $148.50 per cow calf unit BY NOT SPRIGGING
I can be available to come plant 2 acres of Tiff leaf 3 Millet for you for $2000. You might as well pay me the money than the fertilizer company unless you own it. Or better yet keep planting permanent pasture and buy stock in your local fertilizer co-op.
Tiff leaf 8x111 888.00 Correct ?? Yes, I own it. Were are you located ?
 

edrsimms

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Not correct, because I was figuring enough forage for 12 cows which was the stocking rate for 8 acres of Bermuda.
(1.5 cow calf units/acre x 8 acres = 12) for a price tag of 2000, which is 167.00 per cow calf unit- which is "nonsense"
For Millet he would only need 2 acres of grazing to equal the 8 acres of Bermuda.
If he planted the whole 8 acres in Millet he could run (6 cow/calves per acre) which = 48 pairs

So, NO, $111 x 2 acres = $222/ 12 cow/calf units = $18.50 vs the $167.00 per cow calf unit for Bermuda

Not only is Bermuda a poor choice for grazing due to the high cost of inputs and water requirements, most cows nursing calves cant meet their nutritional requirement on Bermuda- except during Spring Flush.

Example: cows calving mid-February will be at peak milk production between Month 2 and 3 post-calving which is May.

Feed value fresh for Tift 85 is 11% (average) and 50% TDN which is 0.11 x 0.50 = 0.055 ~ 0.06

A Cow at peak milk (average milking ability 20 lbs) weighing 1200 lbs will need 2.65 lbs Total Protein per day
1200 lb cow will eat 3% of her body weight per day = 1200 x 3% = 36 lbs

36 lbs of Bermuda (fresh) x 0.06 = 2.16 lbs of total Protein per day (What she does get will go to Milk production and she will lose body condition and not breed back on time-- which defeats our purpose ---doesn't it?

what is needed / feed value = lbs of forage required ------- 2.65 / 0.06 = 44 lbs (but our 1200 lb cow can only eat 36 lbs a day)

Millet
Feed value is 0.17 CP x 70% TDN = 0.119 ~ 0.12 (double Bermuda)
Same cow needs 2.65 lbs of Total Protein per day

what is needed / feed value = lbs of forage required ------ 2.65/0.12 = 22 lbs of Millet

Can she meet her TP requirement with Millet? YES Can she meet her TP requirement with Tift 85 or any other Bermuda? NO
 

gberry

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edrsimms, I have a couple of questions.
1. Why is your fertilizer estimate so much lower for millet?
2. What would the grazing season be on the millet?
 

edrsimms

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gberry":3kztjum2 said:
edrsimms, I have a couple of questions.
1. Why is your fertilizer estimate so much lower for millet?
Because Millet is not a big fertilizer user unlike bermuda
2. What would the grazing season be on the millet? Planted April 10th- Begin grazing May 10th through Labor day
 

edrsimms

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GRTiger85":whjsx9bu said:
if your cows cant get it done on fertilized T85 or coastal...you need some new cows

I see that you are missing the pointTiger-- Let me try to explain it again. It's not that they "can't get it done" it is a cost and nutrition issue. This person was asking to Sprig or Not to Sprig 8 acres
Well fertilized bermuda (75 - 40 - 60) on pasture that has a Lime Index over 6.2 costs 234.00 per acre for April, May, June

July, August and September you are looking at another 75 units of N which will cost you another $45/acre.

1.5 cows per acre (stocking rate for Bermuda) equals --- $279/ 1.5 cows per acre on Bermuda = $186.00 per cow calf for the grazing period of April thru September . 8 acres which will graze 12 cows costs 279 x 8 = $2232.00

The biggest problem with Bermuda of any variety is the lack of TDN -- No matter how much chicken litter or commercial fertilizer you put on it it will still only have a TDN of 50% with 55% at best. Another problem with Bermuda is it needs a lot of water.

Tiger, what this means is that every lb of bermuda that your cow eats only 50% of it is digestible. So, not only does it have poor digestibility and water requirements is costs MUCH MORE than Millet.

Plant Millet in April and graze it 30 days later 20 lbs/acre = $30/acre
Millet fertilizer needs are (50 - 0 - 0) = $35/acre
Cost to plant and fertilize Millet is $65.00/ acre, but on each acre of Tiff Leaf 3 Millet instead of only being able to graze 1.5 cow/calf pairs I can graze 6 cow/calf pairs.

So Tiger, the difference here is that I can graze 12 cows on Bermuda for $186 per cow calf unit OR

I can plant 2 acres of Millet for $130 and and graze 12 cows on it all summer for $130/12 = 11.00 per cow calf pair. So Tiger what would you rather do??? Spend $11/ cow calf pair or $186 per cow calf pair for grazing April thru September?
 

Jogeephus

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Ed, you and my neighbor must have gone to the same school or something cause he believes as you do but he only runs a pair to the acre. He and I have debated this for years. He loves the monoculture while I prefer not to put all my eggs in one basket. We are not arguing this year cause he is still hauling hay and feed and had to sell some of his calves off early while mine are still eating nonfertilized bahia. Here is a picture of his best pasture this year just a few days after he put his cows on it - others are dirt. I seriously doubt he could add another 5 like you say - while in some years he probably could.

 

GRTiger85

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Honestly, Id rather run them on my native pasture for $0 a pair. Also dont see where you are getting your numbers. It only cost us $35 dollars an acre to put out 250Lbs of 25-10-6 to the acre on our coastal hay fields. And down here its stays green long after everything else has dried up and died in the droughts. Also seriously doubt that 2 acres can handle 12 pairs all summer long, just dont see that happening.
 

Jogeephus

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GRTiger85":2mmc8fmo said:
Honestly, Id rather run them on my native pasture for $0 a pair. Also dont see where you are getting your numbers. It only cost us $35 dollars an acre to put out 250Lbs of 25-10-6 to the acre on our coastal hay fields. And down here its stays green long after everything else has dried up and died in the droughts. Also seriously doubt that 2 acres can handle 12 pairs all summer long, just dont see that happening.

I guess it all goes back to the fact that there is no silver bullet that will work everywhere for everyone. I sure can't see the numbers working here either.
 

GRTiger85

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Ya Jo, you got that one right different everywhere you go, i guess different numbers to. Anyways, either one you pick...sprigging or planting, better pray for some rain.
 

edrsimms

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Jogeephus":2zjwv0jp said:
Ed, you and my neighbor must have gone to the same school or something cause he believes as you do but he only runs a pair to the acre. He and I have debated this for years. He loves the monoculture while I prefer not to put all my eggs in one basket. We are not arguing this year cause he is still hauling hay and feed and had to sell some of his calves off early while mine are still eating nonfertilized bahia. Here is a picture of his best pasture this year just a few days after he put his cows on it - others are dirt. I seriously doubt he could add another 5 like you say - while in some years he probably could



I never said anything about putting 6 on bahia --- I said MILLET
Bahia is a weed we use Oust or Cimmaron on it -- hate bahia grass.
 

edrsimms

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Jogeephus":1fo6mpa3 said:
GRTiger85":1fo6mpa3 said:
Honestly, Id rather run them on my native pasture for $0 a pair. Also dont see where you are getting your numbers. It only cost us $35 dollars an acre to put out 250Lbs of 25-10-6 to the acre on our coastal hay fields. And down here its stays green long after everything else has dried up and died in the droughts. Also seriously doubt that 2 acres can handle 12 pairs all summer long, just dont see that happening.

2 acres can handle 12 pair all summer "limit grazed" -- we dont waste forage and just leave them on it all day and night..
A pair can meet their nutritional requirement in a few hours on Millet vs (Not even close on Unfertilized Bahia or fertilized Bermuda) that is the whole point to save money and increase profits!
Millet is cheaper to maintain, requires less water, requires less fertilizer, has a higher stocking rate and has much higher nutritional value..... and yes we can put out 50 units of N for $35/ acre
Bermuda needs: more fertilizer, more water, has a lower stocking rate and has far less a nutritional value.
Bermuda needs a 75-40-60 in April and another 75 N in July and costs yes $250 per acre over the period btw April and Labor day.
I will just continue to plant millet and run 6 pair per acre on it "limit grazed" every summer for $11.00/pr and yall can continue to pay through the nose for fertilizing a nutritionally inferior Bermuda for $186/pr
 

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