To Band or To Cut

[Randi]

As a rule, every bull calf born here is banded within a day or so of birth. We do them when we tag and weigh them. It's easy and pretty foolproof if you can count to 2.

Today, though, we had a calf that had a a very small scrotum, or oddly shaped, whatever. Because we couldn't get both testicles into it, we decided to use a knife and cut him. Only took a few seconds, so time really isn't a factor. Did take both of us to hold him down, he is a pretty big calf (113 lbs), but I think one of us could have banded him. But, the biggest downer to cutting I saw was the way he acted afterwards. He took a few strides and laid back down. Started looking like he felt pretty bad. Didn't want to walk out of the barn or follow his mom out to the pasture. We got him through the gate, he went about 10 feet and that is where he laid down and stayed, almost all day. Since DH had to go to town, and we use the stuff at branding anyways, he picked up a bottle of Metacam (painkiller), and we gave him a shot around 3 pm (kicked him out with mom around 11am) Not sure when, as we were busy, but he was up and gone when we looked next.

So, I won't be able to comment on how he compares to the other calves in the next few days. But I'm sure he'll be feeling a lot happier with that shot on board.

Based on this experience, you won't find us changing our castration method, at least on newborns.

 

[Jogeephus]

Never had one lay down after cutting them. Wonder if it wasn't something else? Just a thought.

 

[M-5]

I cut a few last week , they walk slower for a day but don't lay down like that. Checked them this evening and still some swelling on scrotom but healing well

 

[dun]

I've had them do that after being banded and also some after cutting. I think it may be an "indignity" of the process kind of thing.

 

[Randi]

Well, whatever the case, this guy was sure feeling sorry for himself. I don't think it was anything else, all else was done after he was cut and then laid back down.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Well, whatever the case, this guy was sure feeling sorry for himself. I don't think it was anything else, all else was done after he was cut and then laid back down.

I can't blame him for feeling sorry for himself..... But I bet he will be just fine. Wouldn't trade places with him though.

 

[Nesikep]

When I get one that's really hard to band I usually just wait.. Of course I don't have 500 of them either which is certainly a factor.
Banding seems to be the easiest on them.. Once in a while I can do it while they lay down and don't even have to flip them over, so it's certainly low stress.

Someone on Facebook Cow talk posted a picture of a little piece of wood, made of 1/4" plywood with a 2" long 3/8" wide slot to help with banding.. you just get the two nuts, slide the 'fork' above them, and then you can fiddle around with the banding pliers without losing one of them. Seemed like a really slick, simple idea.

 

[Randi]

From past experience, we have found that, usually, if you can't band them at birth, you can't do them later either. And this guy scrotum was barely large enough for 1 nut, I don't think that would have changed.

We've got a thing like that, only made out of plastic. Never use it....

 

[Nesikep]

After 25 years of practice without it, I don't need it either.. but if you haven't done them much before it may help.

I guess one option would be to band with no nuts in there.. Still would develop like a bull, but most likely (not reliably) be sterile... Option 3 is to just do nothing and take a dock.. Losing just 1 from complications would pay for a lot of dockage. I'm not advocating any of these, just ways of looking at it.

 

[Randi]

If we can band them, we do. That is probably 99.9% of calves. If its like this calf, (first one we've ever had) and we feel we can cut him without any problems, we do. And, if we get a real belly nutter, we just leave him. I don't want to do surgery myself, and the odds of him getting an infection are higher, and for the dock we'll see for him, I have no wish to pay the vet.

As for your first option, IMO, that is being dishonest. And, its what has given banded calves a bad rep. Plus, its pretty cruel for the calf, I think. You've just put it through banding, and now, whoever's going to buy him will do surgery on him to make him a steer anyways. AND, if the auction barn is any good at sorting, they will probably pick him out anyways (or the buyers will, that's their job) and you'll get docked, possibly worse than if he was just left as a bull, anyways.

I've actually seen a group of calves come through the stockyards banded with th nuts pushed up. The sorters picked upo on them immediately, after all, they still look like bulls, even if they are probably sterile (and they WILL act like bulls if they aren't castrated). And, I've watched the buyers pick Stags, that the sorters missed, out on sale day. Sometimes out of groups of hundreds of calves.

 

[Nesikep]

They are easy to pick out, and I didn't imply you'd be selling him as a steer.. Yes, they will act and look like bulls.

 

[Randi]

They are easy to pick out, and I didn't imply you'd be selling him as a steer.. Yes, they will act and look like bulls.

No, I know you weren't implying anything, just stating my thoughts on the matter! :hat:

 

[backhoeboogie]

Banding works for me but I get one like Randi describes occasionally. If you can't count to two, you have to get out the knife.

 

[dun]

Banding works for me but I get one like Randi describes occasionally. If you can't count to two, you have to get out the knife.

We've only had a couple through the years. Just waited another month and baded them then.

 

[Kell-inKY]

Mike row says neither, rip them off with your teeth. He's talking about sheep in this but it is a really good video for other reasons if you haven't seen it.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/IRVdiHu1VCc[/youtube]

 

[Hippie Rancher]

We cut everything. It may be regional, I don't know anybody that bands.

 

[allisonr]

Kell,
awesome video.. thanks for posting that.

 

[tncattle]

If he was a day or two old I'd say that's why he laid down--new baby + stressful event=lay down JMO

 

[Randi]

I suppose, but the other 100 that we've done so far didn't ....