To all the longhorn breeders

[BARNSCOOP]

cypressfarms,

There is nothing, nothing wrong with a dulition, heterois, mutt cattle. Mutt sounds like a strong word the way you put it. According to studies to have "Mutt" calves only maximizes them.
If hear you right you are not interested in breeding to a Char bull because that is not what you own. I believe the posters are tell you what they know will do exceptional crossed with Longhorns to sell at the stockyard.
So, Let's sum this up. Your interested in buy these Longhorns because they are cheap to buy at your location and you wondering if crossbred they will give you some stock that will tolerate the heat better. If they are cheap in your part of the country then selling anything crossed with them will be cheap or docked. If horns or spots or any color other than black gets docked..your calves will be as well. You have a battle to pick. I total understand wanting to keep cattle that indure the heat...I am with you. However alot of the time you will have to compromise due to the fact that in some areas those signature cattle cause us to be docked big. Personally, I wouldn't buy them. You may end up with grass/hay burners that you will loose your butt on unless you go out and buy yet another bull to try to remove the outward traits that will get you docked. If you have the land and money to try this, then it might be interesting to dabble in.
It's hard to see how most cattle wouldn't be tongue hanging in 110 degrees with the humidity you have down their. Good luck and I hope you think it over well before you buy. Hey, I have some Limo crosses that are great tempered cows.

 

[cypressfarms]

cypressfarms,

There is nothing, nothing wrong with a dulition, heterois, mutt cattle. Mutt sounds like a strong word the way you put it. According to studies to have "Mutt" calves only maximizes them.
If hear you right you are not interested in breeding to a Char bull because that is not what you own. I believe the posters are tell you what they know will do exceptional crossed with Longhorns to sell at the stockyard.
So, Let's sum this up. Your interested in buy these Longhorns because they are cheap to buy at your location and you wondering if crossbred they will give you some stock that will tolerate the heat better. If they are cheap in your part of the country then selling anything crossed with them will be cheap or docked. If horns or spots or any color other than black gets docked..your calves will be as well. You have a battle to pick. I total understand wanting to keep cattle that indure the heat...I am with you. However alot of the time you will have to compromise due to the fact that in some areas those signature cattle cause us to be docked big. Personally, I wouldn't buy them. You may end up with grass/hay burners that you will loose your butt on unless you go out and buy yet another bull to try to remove the outward traits that will get you docked. If you have the land and money to try this, then it might be interesting to dabble in.
It's hard to see how most cattle wouldn't be tongue hanging in 110 degrees with the humidity you have down their. Good luck and I hope you think it over well before you buy. Hey, I have some Limo crosses that are great tempered cows.

Why do I feel like my dad is scolding me and summing things up for me to have closure. Hmmm.

First, I put "mutt" in on purpose to show my disdain for the philosophy of "diluting" a herd. Although it's not desirable to have a herd of heinz 57's because of calf diversity, anyone who ignores hybrid vigor does so at the expense of their pocketbook.

Second, I have no problem with a Charolais bull. It would throw yellow calves with my beefmasters, which do sell good here. Just because I don't have a Charolais bull now, doesn't mean that I can't get one.

Third, I have already done a good bit of research on this subject, and considered many angles. I posted this thread to invite comments from experienced longhorn cattlemen (which I am not) that may know something that I haven't thought about, not for criticism from people who don't like that I'm thinking about trying something different. Although I am not an experienced longhorn breeder, I'm far from a rookie with cattle.

if I misunderstood your post, then I am sorry. If not, then please re-read.

 

[BARNSCOOP]

I had no ill intent at all just wanted to get back to your real question instead of all the craziness. Why would you limit your desire of opinions to Longhorn breeders only? That's like asking the insurance guy if you need insurance. They love there breed just as everyone loves THERE breed and of course you would be incouraged to buy and breed. Sometimes you can get so caught up in a breed you wont admit there faults. I have all mixed breed cattle so I am not loyal to any breed. But I read what you posted about what would get you docked at the stockyard and I couldn't incourage you to take a chance with the chips against you. It's a bitter pill to swallow if people don't agree with your idea. In the long and short of it I listened to the posters your best success is getting a Char bull and then it might work out for you. NO one on the board spends or looses your money but you. Use your logic and do what you want. Your going to anyway.
P.S. I wouldn't be your Dad , I'd be your Mom.

 

[talldog]

The " Mutt" also makes a fine dog, wouldn't you agree ?? :nod: :nod:

 

[BARNSCOOP]

I will agree!!!!

 

[Brandonm22]

"IF" you do this, pay real close attention to heart girth (~the distance between the front legs) and width throughout (like length between the pins). Longhorns as a breed tend to be too narrow made throughout. It is easy to look at a nice profile and forget that half the cow is in the width. With Longhorns you want breed average or better width because if you get them extremely narrow made, nothing you can put on them is going to improve them enough to not be severely docked by the order buyers.

 

[Brandonm22]

I have both. The beagle beats the heck out of the mutt. Much friendlier, natural rabbit dog, natural pointer, quieter, utterly bomb proof health. As a cow dog nothing beats the blue heeler BUT mine get skin diseases out the wazoo. I just spent $159 at the vet on my older male. He is severly allergic to fleas and starts losing his hair and skin if he even gets near one. This last time he also got severe yeast and bacteria infections (and embarassed me by trying to attack the vet girl). I know this sounds bad but it really all onset very quickly. The dude is now on pills for fleas, allergies, fungi, and antibiotics. My other one and their ancestor also had sensitive skin. If anybody knows, is this a breed wide problem or did I just buy into a really bad line?

 

[farmwriter]

Okay, this is half LH, half BLK Angus. It's her second calf - last years was a male, big and solid blk. See what I mean about how unpredictable their coloring is?
That being said, the LH cows were bought for little more than their first calves brought, they'll eat anything and keep easy, and are some fertile myrtles. If they aren't going to sell well or make good replacement heifers, they become freezer beef. That has made them a good investment for us.

 

[Ryan]

farmwriter,
beautifully colored pair. however, i find the color on the calf curious. since the sire is an angus, the calf should at least be black and white. The calf reminds me of one we had a few years back. When he was born he was a brown lineback. At weaning he was a black lineback. I'd be interested to see this calf at weaning to see what the color looks like (among other reasons).

Ryan

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Little critter did get black ears and nose. Chars and Red limis seem to get more solid color.

 

[farmwriter]

Ryan, I think you may be right about her blackening up. It's not unusual for some of our blackest (and brindle) beef-type cows to throw calves that look brown at birth but grow to be much darker.
Red Bull Breeder, that's sort of what I wanted to caution the original poster about. In my part of the world, sale barn would be tough on a little heifer like the one pictured.
Anybody got pics of LHxChar calves? Would really like to see pics of calves with mama cows to see what they were working with.

 

[Rustler9]

That calf'll wind up black and white before it's all said and done if he's out of a black bull. We have alot of purebred calves born red or red and white but the red turns out black or dark brown when they're grown. It's the wild gene.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Don't ever have a camera with me but pass by CharxLH calves pretty often. Last years calves were solid colored. Some of this years show some spots. Nefphew has some out of a red Limi bull and are solid red.

 

[TXBobcat]

We raise registered Longhorns, and we have just recently ventured into a cross-breeding commercial program also.

We have some of our Longhorn cows/heifers exposed to an Angus bull; however, we have not had any calves yet. Personally, I think the Longhorn cow/Charolais bull cross would make a better calve, but the ranch owner wanted to go with Angus. We shall see how it turns out.

If I were gathering a herd of Longhorn cows to breed to an Angus, Charolais, or whatever, I would do the following.

Purchase Longhorn cows with smaller horn lengths, that are mostly solid black, white, or red, and put a polled Charolais bull on them.