Tips for Starting a Seedstock Herd

[midTN_Brangusman]

Focus on quality and not quantity.
A high quality animal will sell good in any area.

Cull hard by fertility, docility, structure and performance.

Not sure your budget, a good way to start is embryos. Study the animals you like and want to produce. Don't buy a set of cows simply because they are registered.

Customer satisfaction and bull guarantees are a must. Never sell a bull you wouldn't buy. Keep a sharp knife.

I myself am in about our 4th year of converting to registered from commercial herd/stocker operation. All our cows are registered except the recip herd.

Its not an easy road, but if you love the type of animals you produce, it sure makes it enjoyable. Good luck and best wishes.

 

[JMER1533]

I can't speak from much experience yet but I agree with my fellow Tennessean in quality over quantity. Also embryos are a good idea once you've identified the specifics of what you want with an eye to marketing. I'm starting a registered Red Angus and South Poll herd focused on low-input grass fed with very strong culling on easy fleshing on low-input, fertility and disposition. I bought a great bull from Redhill and now I'm scouring everywhere east of the MS to find female genetics, phenotype and culling programs similar to mine. I find one here and there, rarely more than 1 or 2 from the same place or same sale. Just takes a LOT of research and commitment to the level of detail you need in terms of the type of program you'll run and who you'll market to. Talk to breeders who run the same type of operation you run and get tips, cow families, etc that would work for you.
Lots of advice but not backed up with years of experience yet.. just letting you know what I've done.

 

[Lazy M]

Which is it? :roll:

He touts how ky is a terriable place to sell, how every customer he has is an idiot, and knows nothing about cattle.
Then he says he sells bulls for 3k, and everyone wants more???
:???:

You are an expert in backgrounding cattle, I'm sure you are beating a path to get some cattle from the area where Bright Raven and I operate.

If you disagree with what I say, why isn't Kentucky the best place in the country to sell your cattle? We have the best facilities at Bluegrass in Lexington, probably the best in the country, but where are the high prices?

I don't call my customers idiots. None have EVER been called "idiots"

What I do say is this, if you have a herd that's all over the place, every breed and cross imaginable, then complain that you do poorly on your steers, which are out of a mystery bull, then yes, you need some help.

If you lose 1/2 your herd to disease or starvation, then yes you leave a lot to be desired.

Kentucky is a tough place to sell. Mention $4-5k for a bull and you will see 95% of your buyers drop off. That is not the case out west or up north. A high quality bull is not appreciated as much as a "bargain" that's the truth.

I never said "they know nothing" BUT when you speak with buyers who have no clue what carriers are nor do they care, you will see what I'm talking about. Breeding soundness exam? Why? "He looks ok to me" That's what I'm talking about.

If you, or anyone else steps foot on our operation and you are sincere and serious about a bull then you will be treated with respect. If you are looking for an $800 bull, then your out of luck. If you take offense to that, then I don't know what to say.

https://www.angus.org/AngusProductions/SaleReportsdtl.aspx?eid=DgAAAId0KxdzPAGs6vYmBD%2byh04%3d&il=DgAAAEQrujU5dwVoL18j9OafTcE%3d
Boyd bulls averaged just shy of $5k in their sale earlier this month. Several buyers were from out of state but the majority were Kentucky buyers. Breed a good bull, build a good name and even us dumb Kentucky boys will open up our wallets.

 

[Lazy M]

And the bull market really is awful right now. Very nice bulls can be bought in the 2500-3500 range. You need to educate yourself on the current market trends.

 

[CattleMan1920]

And the bull market really is awful right now. Very nice bulls can be bought in the 2500-3500 range. You need to educate yourself on the current market trends.

I have, I understand what is going on in Kentucky.

Should I post the Angus Report with Alex Tolbert?

He describes why it sucks, the weather.

Ok, let's blame it on the weather, that works.

 

[CattleMan1920]

He touts how ky is a terriable place to sell, how every customer he has is an idiot, and knows nothing about cattle.
Then he says he sells bulls for 3k, and everyone wants more???
:???:

You are an expert in backgrounding cattle, I'm sure you are beating a path to get some cattle from the area where Bright Raven and I operate.

If you disagree with what I say, why isn't Kentucky the best place in the country to sell your cattle? We have the best facilities at Bluegrass in Lexington, probably the best in the country, but where are the high prices?

I don't call my customers idiots. None have EVER been called "idiots"

What I do say is this, if you have a herd that's all over the place, every breed and cross imaginable, then complain that you do poorly on your steers, which are out of a mystery bull, then yes, you need some help.

If you lose 1/2 your herd to disease or starvation, then yes you leave a lot to be desired.

Kentucky is a tough place to sell. Mention $4-5k for a bull and you will see 95% of your buyers drop off. That is not the case out west or up north. A high quality bull is not appreciated as much as a "bargain" that's the truth.

I never said "they know nothing" BUT when you speak with buyers who have no clue what carriers are nor do they care, you will see what I'm talking about. Breeding soundness exam? Why? "He looks ok to me" That's what I'm talking about.

If you, or anyone else steps foot on our operation and you are sincere and serious about a bull then you will be treated with respect. If you are looking for an $800 bull, then your out of luck. If you take offense to that, then I don't know what to say.

https://www.angus.org/AngusProductions/SaleReportsdtl.aspx?eid=DgAAAId0KxdzPAGs6vYmBD%2byh04%3d&il=DgAAAEQrujU5dwVoL18j9OafTcE%3d
Boyd bulls averaged just shy of $5k in their sale earlier this month. Several buyers were from out of state but the majority were Kentucky buyers. Breed a good bull, build a good name and even us dumb Kentucky boys will open up our wallets.

Let me ask you a sincere question. What makes you think that what I have is not "good" I have sons and daughters that simply do not exist on any operation in Kentucky, but that's not "good" enough for you?

I understand the reputation issue as well, I guess we need the 100 year Historic Angus Award instead of the 50 year we have now? We've had Angus out here for a long time.

Here is my most important question and I think it will help others as well. Is is best just to buy your way into the business with high dollar heifers and ET? Or is there any merit in breeding using AI and building the herd organically?

Would $250k or $500k get a decent operation off the ground (assuming you already have land and equipment) or do you need more? I'm figuring to play in the big leagues you need a minimum of $5 million and some wealthy silent partners helping to keep things afloat.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I think he was saying good bulls, from well know farms sell well even in Kentucky, not that you don't raise good bulls.

 

[gizmom]

Why is it so important to play in the big leagues, I have no desire to play at raising cattle. I love raising them, seeing the genetic improvements made with each calf crop. I am in competition, but it isn't against other breeders, it's against my last calf crop. We measure for performance traits, it doesn't matter if a calf is AI sired or An ET calf out of my best donor and the hottest bull on the market, if it doesn't perform it doesn't make the cut. I don't want 2000 pound cows my environment doesn't support them. I am very happy with a heifer weighing 800 to 900 pounds as a yearling and calving out at 1100 to 1200 pounds. Our cow herd average weight is 1350 and they wean off calves at 650 to 750 pounds at close to 205 days of age. We have some bigger cows they stay because they do their job and do it well, but if the smaller cow is weighing the same percentage calf as the big cow have I truly gained anything? I have always said my goal is to breed the perfect cow, I love the quest, and really don't think anyone can build the perfect cow, come close but perfection is always just out of reach. For me it's the quest for perfection that keeps me going. I have no desire whatsoever to buy my way to the top, we have purchased some excellent cows but by golly we have bred a bunch as well. I want someday for my son to look at our herd and say wow mom sure was a fine CattleWomen, she had it figured out.

Gizmom

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Gizmom I hope you never figure it out, if you do it will surely take the fun out of it. The quest for a better cow should never end! I hope your son looks at the herd and says what can I do to make them better.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Why is it so important to play in the big leagues, I have no desire to play at raising cattle. I love raising them, seeing the genetic improvements made with each calf crop. I am in competition, but it isn't against other breeders, it's against my last calf crop. We measure for performance traits, it doesn't matter if a calf is AI sired or An ET calf out of my best donor and the hottest bull on the market, if it doesn't perform it doesn't make the cut. I don't want 2000 pound cows my environment doesn't support them. I am very happy with a heifer weighing 800 to 900 pounds as a yearling and calving out at 1100 to 1200 pounds. Our cow herd average weight is 1350 and they wean off calves at 650 to 750 pounds at close to 205 days of age. We have some bigger cows they stay because they do their job and do it well, but if the smaller cow is weighing the same percentage calf as the big cow have I truly gained anything? I have always said my goal is to breed the perfect cow, I love the quest, and really don't think anyone can build the perfect cow, come close but perfection is always just out of reach. For me it's the quest for perfection that keeps me going. I have no desire whatsoever to buy my way to the top, we have purchased some excellent cows but by golly we have bred a bunch as well. I want someday for my son to look at our herd and say wow mom sure was a fine CattleWomen, she had it figured out.

Gizmom

You understand the cattle business, and are already a fine cattle woman. Just because you have something that no one else does, doesn't mean that you have something special.

 

[Lazy M]

You are an expert in backgrounding cattle, I'm sure you are beating a path to get some cattle from the area where Bright Raven and I operate.

If you disagree with what I say, why isn't Kentucky the best place in the country to sell your cattle? We have the best facilities at Bluegrass in Lexington, probably the best in the country, but where are the high prices?

I don't call my customers idiots. None have EVER been called "idiots"

What I do say is this, if you have a herd that's all over the place, every breed and cross imaginable, then complain that you do poorly on your steers, which are out of a mystery bull, then yes, you need some help.

If you lose 1/2 your herd to disease or starvation, then yes you leave a lot to be desired.

Kentucky is a tough place to sell. Mention $4-5k for a bull and you will see 95% of your buyers drop off. That is not the case out west or up north. A high quality bull is not appreciated as much as a "bargain" that's the truth.

I never said "they know nothing" BUT when you speak with buyers who have no clue what carriers are nor do they care, you will see what I'm talking about. Breeding soundness exam? Why? "He looks ok to me" That's what I'm talking about.

If you, or anyone else steps foot on our operation and you are sincere and serious about a bull then you will be treated with respect. If you are looking for an $800 bull, then your out of luck. If you take offense to that, then I don't know what to say.

https://www.angus.org/AngusProductions/SaleReportsdtl.aspx?eid=DgAAAId0KxdzPAGs6vYmBD%2byh04%3d&il=DgAAAEQrujU5dwVoL18j9OafTcE%3d
Boyd bulls averaged just shy of $5k in their sale earlier this month. Several buyers were from out of state but the majority were Kentucky buyers. Breed a good bull, build a good name and even us dumb Kentucky boys will open up our wallets.

Let me ask you a sincere question. What makes you think that what I have is not "good" I have sons and daughters that simply do not exist on any operation in Kentucky, but that's not "good" enough for you?

I understand the reputation issue as well, I guess we need the 100 year Historic Angus Award instead of the 50 year we have now? We've had Angus out here for a long time.

Here is my most important question and I think it will help others as well. Is is best just to buy your way into the business with high dollar heifers and ET? Or is there any merit in breeding using AI and building the herd organically?

Would $250k or $500k get a decent operation off the ground (assuming you already have land and equipment) or do you need more? I'm figuring to play in the big leagues you need a minimum of $5 million and some wealthy silent partners helping to keep things afloat.

Never said that your stock wasn't good. To give an honest opinion I'd have to see them first hand.

 

[CreekAngus]

I think he was saying good bulls, from well know farms sell well even in Kentucky, not that you don't raise good bulls.

Branded likes to chase rabbit holes and find arguments in statements no one has ever made, my favorite is when he answers questions with questions, which is what politicians do when they have no real answer. I thought the statement was very benign,"raise good cattle and create a good reputation" no inference that Branded's cattle are inferior. I wonder is it good or bad that Branded has cattle no one else has in Kentucky (tongue in cheek).

 

[CattleMan1920]

I think he was saying good bulls, from well know farms sell well even in Kentucky, not that you don't raise good bulls.

Branded likes to chase rabbit holes and find arguments in statements no one has ever made, my favorite is when he answers questions with questions, which is what politicians do when they have no real answer. I thought the statement was very benign,"raise good cattle and create a good reputation" no inference that Branded's cattle are inferior. I wonder is it good or bad that Branded has cattle no one else has in Kentucky (tongue in cheek).

Don't wonder too much, it probably doesn't mean jack sh.t in the big picture.

"A cow is a cow at the end of the day" is what a neighbor once said to me, "if it has 4 legs, can stand up, and moo, then nothing else matters as far as I'm concerned". Profound, I know...