Tiny Tina

[Bright Raven]

35 #'s.

Do I get a prize for being within 4 lbs of the BWT?

I look forward to having Lady here.

All things considered, and especially since you've hung out a seed stock shingle, why?

Lady has an excellent pedigree. Fire Sweep did not explain the cause of Lady's issues. This past winter was difficult. Lady had a respiratory infection. Probably Pasteurella (Mannheimia). One of her lungs is compromised. Combine that with the highest endophyte levels in the nation. We think she will do well under my management and environment.

The effects on her body of having recovered from a serious respiratory ailment does not diminish her pedigree or phenotype. That remains of value. The breeding issue might be a problem that leads to culling. I will breed her in December, if she does not respond to first or second AI, that provides the confirmation we need to cull her. In Fire Sweep's environment, she has experienced some heifer breeding issues. Those just don't occur here in my experience.

 

[True Grit Farms]

So her and her offspring may only be good in Kentucky under ideal conditions. Sounds like an excellent pedigree if your raising pets.

 

[Bright Raven]

So her and her offspring may only be good in Kentucky under ideal conditions. Sounds like an excellent pedigree if your raising pets.

The heifer is compromised by a lung issue. It happens. Culling her certainly has merit.

 

[True Grit Farms]

So her and her offspring may only be good in Kentucky under ideal conditions. Sounds like an excellent pedigree if your raising pets.

The heifer is compromised by a lung issue. It happens. Culling her certainly has merit.

Some people can work around the lung issue. But fertility in cattle you can't work around unless you want a really useless pet.
IMO fertility is the number one issue for culling an animal.

 

[Bright Raven]

So her and her offspring may only be good in Kentucky under ideal conditions. Sounds like an excellent pedigree if your raising pets.

The heifer is compromised by a lung issue. It happens. Culling her certainly has merit.

Some people can work around the lung issue. But fertility in cattle you can't work around unless you want a really useless pet.
IMO fertility is the number one issue for culling an animal.

Culling for fertility has to rank in the top 3. I never ranked culling factors but it is easy to rank highly in a cow/calf operation. I would not fault anyone for culling at this point. The heifer failed on a couple of attempts. If Fire Sweep wants to give her a chance to demonstrate she is fertile, then this is the place to do it.

 

[True Grit Farms]

The heifer is compromised by a lung issue. It happens. Culling her certainly has merit.

Some people can work around the lung issue. But fertility in cattle you can't work around unless you want a really useless pet.
IMO fertility is the number one issue for culling an animal.

Culling for fertility has to rank in the top 3. I never ranked culling factors but it is easy to rank highly in a cow/calf operation. I would not fault anyone for culling at this point. The heifer failed on a couple of attempts. If Fire Sweep wants to give her a chance to demonstrate she is fertile, then this is the place to do it.

Even if she breeds back and does well for you, doesn't mean her offspring will be fertile in other places under different management practices?

 

[Bright Raven]

Some people can work around the lung issue. But fertility in cattle you can't work around unless you want a really useless pet.
IMO fertility is the number one issue for culling an animal.

Culling for fertility has to rank in the top 3. I never ranked culling factors but it is easy to rank highly in a cow/calf operation. I would not fault anyone for culling at this point. The heifer failed on a couple of attempts. If Fire Sweep wants to give her a chance to demonstrate she is fertile, then this is the place to do it.

Even if she breeds back and does well for you, doesn't mean her offspring will be fertile in other places under different management practices?

I don't recall the details of the attempt to breed her. It is not uncommon to make 2 AI attempts to get a cow/heifer bred in any environment. Often, it is not a function of fertility. It is a function of inadequate heat detection or semen placement. Their daughter is learning to AI and although she has a good track record, I doubt she always executes a perfect AI.

Then there is early embryonic death. Even in live service, it may take a couple cycles for a bull to record a pregnancy. Fire Sweep didnt provide the details to suggest to me that it was the heifer's fault.

 

[76 Bar]

Seed stock producers who take no prisoners from day one regardless of the circumstances get my vote.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Seed stock producers who take no prisoners from day one regardless of the circumstances get my vote.

Problem is their few and far between.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Ron, I think it best for the future of the entire Simmental breed it would be prudent for all future female offspring of this mutant cow to spent their lives at our place. Ship them over post weaning.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Ugh, you guys are brutal!
The cow (heifer) was AI'd twice. We got busy with shows, and had THREE heifers that I had not observed passing over two cycles (that is when I stop watching them closely). I took all three heifers to a friend's place who owns a very nice AI stud bull. It was severe drought conditions here, so feeding three less head for a bit was more than convienent for me, plus he is a really nice sire and I wanted some calves from him.
Once the three heifers were brought back home (they were there for two cycles length- about 45 days), I waited about 30 days before I had them pregged. I knew one was still open, because she was cycling. Preg check revieled one heifer stuck to AI date, this heifer was bred 30 days (so bull), and the third heifer was open. The open heifer went to the stockyards, the other two stayed here.
This heifer's dam is still in production, kicking out a AI calf every year and she is 9 years old. There is no fertility issues with this female line, so I suspect none with her. Last summer was HOT, DRY and lacking in decent forage. My cattle came out of summer and went into winter pretty lean, because hay could not be found, and what I did find was triple the normal cost and junk hay baled up from fields never cut.
This cow calf pair are going to KY because it is time for Ron to be feeding our our partnership cattle, not because she can not survive in my envirnment. We are getting overstocked here at my farm, Bright Raven is UNDERSTOCKED. We have jockied cattle back and forth over several years; many of my cows out in the field right now lived part of thier lives in KY in luxury. At my farm, my cattle have to work to make a living.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I'm good with all that, but why is the calf so small? I guess it's easy enough to blame it on the bull.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

I'm good with all that, but why is the calf so small? I guess it's easy enough to blame it on the bull.

Vet said calf is small because of the dam being sick at the most important growth stage of the calf. The last trimester of the pregnancy is when the calf puts on the most weight (said to be 2 plus pounds a day). Since the dam was sick, she lost weight instead of gaining it. We caught it too late.... I do not baby my cattle here, but should have been more proactive on this one.

 

[Buck Randall]

If Tiny Tina makes it you should breed her to Lil' Bill.

https://www.drovers.com/article/lil-bill-calf-born-premature-defies-odds-mississippi-state

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Lil Bill is cute as a button.

 

[wbvs58]

I do think verifying the sire would be my first step.

Ken

 

[76 Bar]

Problem is their few and far between.

I concur. Unfortunately, not a dime a dozen. That said, they're out there...and worth every effort to find and of course, patronize. Ask me how I know. ;-)

 

[76 Bar]

Ugh, you guys are brutal!

How so?

At my farm, my cattle have to work to make a living.

There's a lot between the lip and cup in defining

work for a living

.

 

[Jason1040]

You are a seed stock producer that is defending their cattle having a calf like that? You need to be honest with yourself and quit trying to convince yourself she is a good cow because of her numbers or EPDs. She is young enough to make some fine eating - but not worthy of producing bulls for future customers. Get rid of her and that dink calf if you are serious about producing real working bulls.

 

[Son of Butch]

She is young enough to make some fine eating -

IF your definition of Fine eating is grading Select rather than Choice... then yes.