three bull questions

[badaxemoo]

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1. What do you think reasonable depreciation in price is on a bull? For example, you buy a two-year old for $1500 and use him for three seasons. Assuming he was worth his original price, and has thrown good calves, how much is he worth now as a breeding animal?

2. A reputable breeder has two really nice looking 8 month old bull calves for sale that he has selected his herd. How much can you tell from this age calf vs. a 2 year old in how they will develop? I trust this guy and he only saves bull calves from his best cows. I think I know what a good 2 year old should look like, but I'm not confident about calves.

3. One of the bull calves was five pounds heavier this breeder's average calf weight (75 lbs) and one was almost ten pounds heavier. They are both out of the same bull. Am I asking for trouble if I use them on some heifers?

 

[KNERSIE]

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1. What do you think reasonable depreciation in price is on a bull? For example, you buy a two-year old for $1500 and use him for three seasons. Assuming he was worth his original price, and has thrown good calves, how much is he worth now as a breeding animal?

A really top bull's value should appreciate as he gets more proven. If its just a good bull used commercially he is only worth what someone else is willing to pay, often its just salvage value.

2. A reputable breeder has two really nice looking 8 month old bull calves for sale that he has selected his herd. How much can you tell from this age calf vs. a 2 year old in how they will develop? I trust this guy and he only saves bull calves from his best cows. I think I know what a good 2 year old should look like, but I'm not confident about calves.

A 8 month old bull calf should exhibit the same balance as a two year old since he will typically be in good condition because he was weaned recently and was likely to have received some feed in the process and his growth spurts wouldn't really have started so he shouldn't have any excuses for being out of balance. At 8 months his scrotum must be reasonably well developed and symmetrical and he should start to show secondary sex traits. In simple terms he must look pretty much like your ideal weaning age calf, but with added bull character

3. One of the bull calves was five pounds heavier this breeder's average calf weight (75 lbs) and one was almost ten pounds heavier. They are both out of the same bull. Am I asking for trouble if I use them on some heifers?

Not neccesarily, if the breeder's average calf size is very moderate, I would rather buy his higher BW calves than the lower end out of a herd with typically higher BW. Alot also depends on the size and condition of the dams of these calves, it could be that they are just easier doing and stay fat when others are struggling. The breeder should be able to help you here as only he knows his cows and their production records. Do they have EPDs? Do the sire and dams have EPDs? Does the breeder have good records?

Not the easiest of questions to answer :shock:

 

[highvoltagecattleco]

I wouldn't buy an 8th month old. Bulls go through big structure change between 8 & 12 months. Typically that is when they look the worst. I like to see bulls at 14 - 16 months old. At 8 months its a crap shoot on what they finish at the year mark. A lot of cattle will grow crazy until weaning and hit a wall.

 

[tlmcr]

1. Older bulls are harder to sell as breeding animals, most people want a fresh looking 2 year old. The bull is likely worth pound price.

2. We save our best bull calves at weaning and then cull down again at 14-15 months and some of the best at weaning do not make the grade, 8 month old calf is a risk.

3. Not enough information here; what is the cows BW epd? how old are the respective dams? obviously small BW is better, but it is not the entire story.

Hope this helps.

 

[mnmtranching]

1. The bull is worth kill price. Little interest in used bulls. Maybe a trade, or if a friend needs a bull for a year or two. The bull will be 6? by next breeding season? Time for kill.

I would look at the Sire, check EPD's. And their dams, utters general appearance. Important, what do the bulls weigh at at 8 months. Get in the pen and look them over good, what are their temperaments?

I don't risk calving problems with my heifers. 75 pound birth weight
max.

 

[badaxemoo]

Thanks for the replies.

I sold my bull for a little over cull price (and I didn't have to take the time to haul him to the sale barn). Call me sentimental, but I'm glad he will get to work for a few more seasons before he becomes baloney.

I think I'm going to hold off for a few months and take another look if he still has the bulls then. He doesn't have EPDs, but he does keep good records.

I still haven't decided if that BW is too high for heifers. It's odd, I've only had two cows have a little calving trouble, and both of them were almost three (my other heifers have been around two) when they threw larger calves.

 

[MikeC]

2. A reputable breeder has two really nice looking 8 month old bull calves for sale that he has selected his herd. How much can you tell from this age calf vs. a 2 year old in how they will develop? I trust this guy and he only saves bull calves from his best cows. I think I know what a good 2 year old should look like, but I'm not confident about calves.

If given the choice between the two ages when buying a bull, I would prefer to choose them at the 8 month age than the 2 year stage.

Do you sell calves when they are 2 years old?

Or do you sell them when they are around 8 months?

 

[Mahaney Cattle Company]

Since you sold you bull do you need a bull immediatly? Or is the 8 month old calves at a price you want to pay?

If neither is important wait until the bulls are fully developed to make your decision.

 

[BTRANCH]

We bought our bull (I posted a picture on the breeds page) when he was just weaned at 7 months and do not regret our decision. True, he did go through the "awkward" stage and seesawed up and down. He makes a beautiful calf. My hubby is already thinking ahead about a replacement, but I hope we have several more years before we have to think about that.

We were comfortable with the genetics from both parents. If you like the looks of the calf, buy him.

 

[TREY-L]

1. He is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for him.

2.If he only has two to sell, I would buy them both and keep the one that turned out the best, and later sell the other. If for some reason you can't do that, and if they have the same sire, I would take a good long look at their mommas. I would also look at their scrotal measurements, I bought two 9 month old bulls a few years ago and the one with the biggest set of nuts at that age also still has the biggest set of nuts at 3 years old, he is also the most dominant,and the better breeder.

3. That is a complicated question, It has many facets that may need to be explored. I'm sorry, I can't answer that with the small amount of information that you've provided.

 

[TREY-L]

Please disregard my previous post, and read reply made by KNERSIE.

Sorry, KNERSIE, I didn't fully read the entire thread before I answered.

Trey