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birdog

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My son wants to use this bull to AI some beefmaster heifers to retain replacements. He should knock off some ear and tighten the leather. The picture makes me think he's lacking in length but it may be the angle. I don't have a problem with him really just wanted to hear everyone's thoughts.
 

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Dsth

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This bull does have fairly good EPDs to start breeding heifers. If he wants to AI, the list of alternative bulls is pretty lengthy. to me, I would like to see a little more muscle but depends on his age when the pic was taken. I would like to see a video of him if available just to see how he moves around. I would also like to see how many daughters and herds his numbers are based on. If you are involved with the herd decisions with your son, it would be a good idea to sort through your list of bulls and pick one you both like. This bull was born in 2014 so I would think costumers must like his calves otherwise they usually don't stick around long. Is he in a major stud lineup or an individual owner collecting him? I would shy away if privately owned and collected.
 

Son of Butch

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I hate the photo - the photographer and whoever chose the photo to use for marketing semen. You know they took dozens of pictures and chose the one that reveals the least faults at a nearly unjudgable angle. My gut instinct says he lacks more than just length and that's why they chose that photo to market him.
 

callmefence

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Epds I'm not qualified to speak on. But Angus x beefmaster is hard to beat for good cows. I would think that 5 stars on udder would be a quality to look for as that tends to be the biggest issues with beefmaster.
 

Katpau

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I know nothing about the bull, but I see Pharo was the breeder. They have an extremely loyal following and I doubt they paid money for a professional photographer. That photo is most likely one they snapped of the bull out in the pasture, and I doubt they tried to hide anything. They are considered "grass cattle" and are usually very short in height and stout of body. People tend to love them or hate them. Pharo does not chase growth or carcass traits like marbling, but they do value maternal traits.
 

Lucky_P

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Terrific calving ease and low BW; calves will probably just fall out. Great maternal calving ease, so if he's considering keeping any of the resulting heifers, they should calve out easily. Great ME value... that's largely explained by the lack of 'growth' (bottom 1% of breed for WW & YW), and the fact that he's a 4-frame bull. Middle of the road marbling, bottom of the barrel ADG, Ribeye area, Carcass weight.

Like Katpau says, PCC mainly advocates small frame score, low-input (high $EN for Angus, low ME for Red Angus) cattle... but growth (WW, YW) and carcass traits (Mrb, REA, CWt) are not notable pluses for any of their bulls I looked at in the past.
 

simme

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Probably works better in low input environments. 49 pound birth weight and 4 frame score. Usually means lower growth and lower mature weight. EPD's for weaning weight roughly 30 pounds less than breed average and yearling 50 pounds less than breed average. May fit west Texas conditions OK. Probably want a little more growth in areas with plenty of grass.

Weaning weight on bull was 426 pounds. Yearling weight was 707 pounds. Here are current EPD's on PCC WFF Braveheart 4515B
 
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birdog

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I don't have any experience with Red Angus. What are some good sires to use on beefmaster heifers to produce replacements. I know there are a lot to choose from just looking for some direction.
 

moses388

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I would shy away if privately owned and collected.
Is there something more to that statement?

I have seen large AI centers market bulls from either side, beef or dairy, that turn out to be junk. Or the sire turns out to be a carrier for a genetic defect. Or the sire is originally marketed as purebred and then later changed to a percentage.

I will purchase semen from private party or AI centers, but I always like to see EPDs or a DNA profile report.
 

Warren Allison

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I don't have any experience with Red Angus. What are some good sires to use on beefmaster heifers to produce replacements. I know there are a lot to choose from just looking for some direction.
The best sire would be Black Angus, not red. The black steer calves will bring you a LOT more money than red ones, and any heifers you chose not to retain would bring a lot more as well. And as far as replacements, there is nothing as far as value... no trait whatsoever...that a black angus is not superior to a red angus in. There in west Texas, you could probably do as well if not better, with a Brangus bull instead of Angus, so don't know why you'd want to "knock off some ear and leather".
 

Ridgefarmer63

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The best sire would be Black Angus, not red. The black steer calves will bring you a LOT more money than red ones, and any heifers you chose not to retain would bring a lot more as well. And as far as replacements, there is nothing as far as value... no trait whatsoever...that a black angus is not superior to a red angus in. There in west Texas, you could probably do as well if not better, with a Brangus bull instead of Angus, so don't know why you'd want to "knock off some ear and leather".
What does "knock off some ear" mean ?
 

Lucky_P

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Ridge, that means... reduce the appearance of Brahman influence.

Never been there, but can only imagine that red cattle may have enough improved performance in west TX that it's worth 'taking the hit' for not having black hide. I know even here in KY, the red/yellow/white cows in our herd would be out grazing in the summer sun when the blacks were in the shade panting.
 

faster horses

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Ridge, that means... reduce the appearance of Brahman influence.

Never been there, but can only imagine that red cattle may have enough improved performance in west TX that it's worth 'taking the hit' for not having black hide. I know even here in KY, the red/yellow/white cows in our herd would be out grazing in the summer sun when the blacks were in the shade panting.
I'm a Black Angus person, but I agree with you. Heat is hard on that black hide. Years back, they measured the internal temperature of Red Cattle vs Black Cattle and the reds were definitely lower internal temperature.
 

Lucky_P

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And... some of us like red or other 'flavors', enough that we'll go that route even if it means having our cattle unfairly discriminated against just because they're not black. It's wrong, but it's what it is.
I much prefer red cattle... and being an old Simmental guy, I liked the original red/white-faced/spotted cows... and... I like Pinzgauer and Braunvieh cattle, too. But... while I could be satisfied with a red baldy... I wasn't going to purposefully breed for 'flowers' or finching. The buyers at the local salebarns would steal spotted calves, and if I'd sent a 'skunk-backed' Pinzgauer-cross through, they'd have marked it up as a LH-cross and downgraded it far below what its true worth should have been.

Birddog's son may be trying to keep the red color of his Beefmasters, using a Red Angus. I'd like to see those calves! Several years back, we went to a W.KY Select Bred Heifer sale at Guthrie... several sets of AngusXBeefmaster heifers went through... prettiest things I'd seen in years!
 

Dsth

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Is there something more to that statement?

I have seen large AI centers market bulls from either side, beef or dairy, that turn out to be junk. Or the sire turns out to be a carrier for a genetic defect. Or the sire is originally marketed as purebred and then later changed to a percentage.

I will purchase semen from private party or AI centers, but I always like to see EPDs or a DNA profile report.
maybe just lack of experience on my part for buying from private ownership. I have bought some from private owners collecting their own bulls and so far calves are not as impressive as semen bought from stud farms. my small herd of mixed breeds does not make me an authority on buying large amounts of semen from either source, so my comment was nothing more than my opinion.
 

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