Thoughts on purebred vs crossbred heifers

Help Support CattleToday:

Calhoun Farm

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
850
Reaction score
0
Location
East, TN
Topic last night at the master beef producer class was genetics, speaker was from UT and had alot of good information. During the presentation he mentioned because of heterosis its better to breed purebred sires to crossbred heifers/momma cows. I currently have a nice black baldie heifer and 3 angus heifers. I would like to sell the angus heifers and find some sim/angus heifers for my bull. Only problem is I can't remember ever seeing these breeds around here for sale. I know I can use craigslist but thats a stretch, and I'm also not a fan of buying anything from the sale barn. What are you thoughts?
 
The Simmenthal association website may have listings for heifers for sale. Otherwise you could just create your own using your existing heifers.
 
dun":39aj3ysb said:
The Simmenthal association website may have listings for heifers for sale. Otherwise you could just create your own using your existing heifers.

I would like to have these crossbred calves on the ground next fall, creating my own would take 3yrs to get calves.
 
The main problem with maintaining a crossbred herd is the having to have a dependable source of quality genetics to select from.
 
Taurus":i5irmemg said:
Or why not steer out your bull, sell it and buy a Sim-Angus bull? It's quickiest route.

I would lose 500 to 600 dollars making him a steer, I would rather sell him than do that. Not to mention I don't want no part of trying to cut a 650lb bull :lol:
 
Calhoun Farm":272q9geu said:
Taurus":272q9geu said:
Or why not steer out your bull, sell it and buy a Sim-Angus bull? It's quickiest route.

I would lose 500 to 600 dollars making him a steer, I would rather sell him than do that. Not to mention I don't want no part of trying to cut a 650lb bull :lol:

Yer probably gonna lose that much on his calves anyway. You might want to remember the old expression:

Buy once cry once

or know when to hold em or when to fold em. You can feed that bull 100 tons of good feed. His genetic package is not going to evolve. He will just be fatter!
 
I feel he has the genetics, his sire is +57 on WW and +105 on YW. Both of those numbers are above the sire avg for Angus bulls. Only thing I can think of is his dam's epds are bad, but he only gets 1/2 her traits so I don't know. His dam was reg Angus but that doesn't mean much really, only that he can be registered.
 
AI to a Simmental bull and then your calves in the fall will be sim-angus. Goal completed.
 
Calhoun Farm":3kk6965x said:
Taurus":3kk6965x said:
Or why not steer out your bull, sell it and buy a Sim-Angus bull? It's quickiest route.

I would lose 500 to 600 dollars making him a steer, I would rather sell him than do that. Not to mention I don't want no part of trying to cut a 650lb bull :lol:
And you would lose more than 600 dollars if you decided to use him as a herdsire. It's good time to sell him or just put a band on him. I think we established that he is not a good bull and shouldn't be using as a breeding sire.
 
Taurus":1ckk34hi said:
Calhoun Farm":1ckk34hi said:
Taurus":1ckk34hi said:
Or why not steer out your bull, sell it and buy a Sim-Angus bull? It's quickiest route.

I would lose 500 to 600 dollars making him a steer, I would rather sell him than do that. Not to mention I don't want no part of trying to cut a 650lb bull :lol:
And you would lose more than 600 dollars if you decided to use him as a herdsire. It's good time to sell him or just put a band on him. I think we established that he is not a good bull and shouldn't be using as a breeding sire.

echo, echo,echo.echo..........
 
The whole point of using a crossbred female with a purebred bull is to maximize your heterosis. By using a crossbred bull on purebred heifers, you're only getting a portion of that effect. Theoretically, the crossbred females milk better than straightbreds. Use a purebred bull, then you have the benefits of the increased milk combined with the higher growth in the calves from the outcross bull. Of course, that is assuming a 3 breed cross. ie. Baldy cows bred to Charolais bulls.

I guess the right question, Calhoun, is: what would be the monetary benefit of going to the trouble of finding 2 or 3 crossbred heifers to use with your bull? Is it worth the trouble??? Just because some professor said that is the "best" way to do it, doesn't mean that is the only way. If I did everything the way that they told us to do it at A&M, we probably would have been out of business before we even started! If your heifers are nice, and you like your bull, and they do their job, what's better than that? Other than being purely idealistic and getting carried away by theory. When we started with our Brangus, the plan was to start using some terminal type bulls when we got up to the number of cows we wanted. But after seeing the calves getting better every year, and making a good amount of money with them, I really don't see a big reason to change what we're doing. Sometimes it's ok to be "good enough." Just food for thought. If you think your heifers are junk and are looking for a reason to start over, well, that's a different story.
 
dun":11obixyh said:
The main problem with maintaining a crossbred herd is the having to have a dependable source of quality genetics to select from.

This, too.
 
Taurus":3qyoyh3e said:
Get a life, Vic


Stop repeating what i say and I will. If you had read the whole thread you would have seen that i told him the same thing several posts back!

Learn to read English and stop using Google translate!
 
You better show them epd's to your bull, that away he will no what he suppose to be doing. Best numbers In the world ain't going to make him any better than he is.
 
Here's my thoughts on your heifers. I took a look at your other thread, and I really agree with everyone else about your bull. But I see that you are planning? to AI now.. I'd really love to see some good photos of your heifers, side shots of them especially.

Having said that, I would just keep the heifers that I had, unless you think you can 'trade up' by selling the ones you have now and buying different ones. If the heifers you have now are good quality, then I'd just keep them and breed them. If you are AIing, you can easily breed them to another breed bull and you will get a lot of heterosis just from that. Sure you are going to lose out on a bit of heterosis by not starting with crossbred heifers, but I don't think that it will be enough to go to the trouble of selling what you have and finding new heifers. Straightbred cattle can raise some pretty darn good calves too. One study I just read said that a crossbred cow will return about $70 more than a purebred cow per year, of course that depends on a lot of things as well, it is not a guarantee... a lot will depend on the individual animals. I've seen a lot of pretty good purebreds, and a lot of pretty crappy crossbred cattle.

Here's a pretty good article about it
http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Docs_cows ... eeding.pdf
 
You will not be doing yourself or your heifers any favours by breeding a.i. to a Simmental. You are new to this and so are your heifers and the last thing you need to be doing is worrying about dystocia and pulling calves. Your little bull looks like a heifer bull to me! He will do the job, he will not injure your heifers or you, and you can monitor the calf weights, let us know if the w/f heifers' calf out performs the straight Angus calves.
 
cowpunk'd":3tlg1hng said:
You will not be doing yourself or your heifers any favours by breeding a.i. to a Simmental. You are new to this and so are your heifers and the last thing you need to be doing is worrying about dystocia and pulling calves. Your little bull looks like a heifer bull to me! He will do the job, he will not injure your heifers or you, and you can monitor the calf weights, let us know if the w/f heifers' calf out performs the straight Angus calves.

I wholeheartedly agree!
 
cowpunk'd":2l5xaooq said:
You will not be doing yourself or your heifers any favours by breeding a.i. to a Simmental. You are new to this and so are your heifers and the last thing you need to be doing is worrying about dystocia and pulling calves. Your little bull looks like a heifer bull to me! He will do the job, he will not injure your heifers or you, and you can monitor the calf weights, let us know if the w/f heifers' calf out performs the straight Angus calves.

Really? Simmental are just as easy (and hard) calving as Angus, or any other breed. It depends on the sire you use. Our little Angus heifer was AI'd to a Simmental bull, and she had no problems calving, though the calf was a little small for my likings! Please don't stereotype the Simmental breed into a calving nightmare for heifers, because they are just like any other breed; there are good ones and bad ones out there.
As for the OPs original question, the best place to look for simm-angus heifers is the breeders in your area. Here is a web site that lists breeders in TN for you.

http://www.breedingcattlepage.com/TNSim ... embers.htm

Hope that helps you, what ever you decide to do.
 
Top