The truth about CAB acceptance rates...

[dun]

For "Angus Source" they have to be out of a registered sire.

To qualify for CAB they have to be at least 51% black hided.

This from one of the links that was posted, it's in the section Requirements:

2.1 Genotype. Cattle eligible for Angus influence beef programs based on genotype must have
positive identification (ear tags, tattoos, brands, etc.) and be traceable back to provable (e.g.;
registration papers) Angus parentage. Qualifying cattle must be traceable to one registered
parent or two registered grandparents. Programs which claim a specified percentage of Angus
heritage must use this method.
2.2 Phenotype. Cattle eligible for certification in Angus influence beef programs based on
phenotype (appearance) must be predominately (51 percent) solid black. Blue roan, gray, etc.,
are not considered to be black or a percentage of black. Such variations can qualify only when
it occupies 49 percent, or less, of the body area with the remaining 51 percent, or greater, being
solid black. 1/ Angus influence cattle may be either horned or polled. Carcasses of certified live
animals which display certain non-Angus characteristics (e.g.; dairy conformation, Brahman
humps) shall be excluded as specified in the carcass specifications for approved programs.

 

[Frankie]

since I was the one that quoted the 17% that was certified I will go further. Mr. Fike also said that some producers had 40-45% certified. This is what the industry should be aiming at. also if you read the links(the way I understand it) they must be 51% angus not just black hide. So my black hide Simmentals would not qualify.

The CAB requirements doesn't require any proof of Angus blood....except the color. The animal must, first and foremost, be at least 51% black. I posted a link to the live cattle requirements. If it meets those live cattle requirements and the meat grading specifications (I posted that link, too), he can certainly be sold as CAB. Your black Simmentals can be CAB.

I think some people are confusing the AngusSource program and CAB. AngusSource is an ear tagging program that certifies the calves are sired by an Angus bull. The calves must be enrolled in that program and color is not an issue. But any animal that shows up at the packing plant, meets the live animal specs and the meat grading specs can be Certified Angus Beef (CAB). It's an eye opener to me how few actually qualify.

 

[VanC]

Does anybody know of any figures that show the acceptance rate of AngusSource cattle only? My guess is it would be higher than the overall rate of 17%.

I think it would also be interesting to see what percentage of non-eligible cattle would meet the CAB carcass requirements.

 

[kenny thomas]

I e-mailed Mr Fike with CAB last night but have not gotten a reply. May not until Monday.
Frankie, If I understand you correctly a calf with 0% Angus could still be Certified Angus beef? Seems weird but you may be correct according to the links provided.

 

[VanC]

I e-mailed Mr Fike with CAB last night but have not gotten a reply. May not until Monday.
Frankie, If I understand you correctly a calf with 0% Angus could still be Certified Angus beef? Seems weird but you may be correct according to the links provided.

That's correct, as long as it's at least 51% black and doesn't have obvious dairy or Brahman influence. Of course, the vast majority of black calves are going to have SOME Angus in them, but the percentage doesn't matter as long as they meet the visual requirements.

 

[Frankie]

I e-mailed Mr Fike with CAB last night but have not gotten a reply. May not until Monday.
Frankie, If I understand you correctly a calf with 0% Angus could still be Certified Angus beef? Seems weird but you may be correct according to the links provided.

If he's black, he's got Angus in there somewhere. When the Angus Assn created CAB, Angus was virtually the only black breed. Limousin were red, Simmental were spotted, Maines were red and white, Salers red, Chars white, Hereford red. Early in the program, the USDA shut it down. The Assn sent someone to Washington, DC to discuss the program with the Sec of Ag. Once he understood the program, he approved it and they were back in business. The USDA has approved using color (black) as proof of Angus influence. But the packers weren't especially interested in the CAB program. They were making money killing and processing those big Continental cattle without much regard for beef quality. In fact, when they started having trouble meeting the demand for higher quality beef, they got the USDA to lower grading standards. The Angus Assn believed that consumers would pay more for better quality beef and they believed Angus provided that quality. So they started CAB. Money was tight for the Assn for a lot of years. They considered shutting down the program a couple of times, but managed to keep it afloat and now it's paying big bucks to the Assn. For several years, all CAB was produced in one small packing plant, but as demand grew, the Assn knew they had to get the big packers involved to grow the brand and they weren't going to buy into any "breed identification" program. It was too much trouble and might actually slow down the line, so color was the deciding factor. The Assn actually sent staff out to packing plants and trained graders.

I believe that's why we have such a low acceptance rate: because there are so many animals with low percentage Angus genetics that meet the live animal specifications, but not the meat quality specs. Animals known to be sired by an Angus bull meet the specs at a considerably higher rate than generic black cattle.

 

[cross_7]

i'm kinda dense so please excuse me.
if i breed my black baldie cows to a registered angus bull the calves should be eligible for the angussource program.
i guess the benefit would be that they should bring a premium when sold.

so do i have to retian ownership through the feedyard or are there feeders paying a premium for agussource cattle ?

 

[Frankie]

Does anybody know of any figures that show the acceptance rate of AngusSource cattle only? My guess is it would be higher than the overall rate of 17%.

I think it would also be interesting to see what percentage of non-eligible cattle would meet the CAB carcass requirements.

I'd expect the AngusSource cattle to do better, too, but I haven't seen any figures on acceptance rate. It may be available somewhere. There's more than genetics involved in making the CAB grade and, I'm sorry to say, not all Angus marble well.

Excel uses the same specs as CAB for their Sterling Silver line of beef....except for color. I've heard they use a lot of Red Angus in that program.

 

[Frankie]

i'm kinda dense so please excuse me.
if i breed my black baldie cows to a registered angus bull the calves should be eligible for the angussource program.
i guess the benefit would be that they should bring a premium when sold.

so do i have to retian ownership through the feedyard or are there feeders paying a premium for agussource cattle ?

If he's a registered Angus bull, the calves should be eligible for the AngusSource program. Yes. Some feeders are paying premiums. The Assn has worked with sale barns across the country, trying to set up special AngusSource sales. Whether there's one in your area, you'll just have to check. The AngusSource program is one of the commercial programs the Assn runs: http://www.angus.org/comm/index.html . Here's an article from Cattle Today about one producer's experience with AngusSource:

http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2009 ... 1882.shtml

 

[Jovid]

I e-mailed Mr Fike with CAB last night but have not gotten a reply. May not until Monday.
Frankie, If I understand you correctly a calf with 0% Angus could still be Certified Angus beef? Seems weird but you may be correct according to the links provided.

If he's black, he's got Angus in there somewhere. When the Angus Assn created CAB, Angus was virtually the only black breed. Limousin were red, Simmental were spotted, Maines were red and white, Salers red, Chars white, Hereford red. Early in the program, the USDA shut it down. The Assn sent someone to Washington, DC to discuss the program with the Sec of Ag. Once he understood the program, he approved it and they were back in business. The USDA has approved using color (black) as proof of Angus influence. But the packers weren't especially interested in the CAB program. They were making money killing and processing those big Continental cattle without much regard for beef quality. In fact, when they started having trouble meeting the demand for higher quality beef, they got the USDA to lower grading standards. The Angus Assn believed that consumers would pay more for better quality beef and they believed Angus provided that quality. So they started CAB. Money was tight for the Assn for a lot of years. They considered shutting down the program a couple of times, but managed to keep it afloat and now it's paying big bucks to the Assn. For several years, all CAB was produced in one small packing plant, but as demand grew, the Assn knew they had to get the big packers involved to grow the brand and they weren't going to buy into any "breed identification" program. It was too much trouble and might actually slow down the line, so color was the deciding factor. The Assn actually sent staff out to packing plants and trained graders.

I believe that's why we have such a low acceptance rate: because there are so many animals with low percentage Angus genetics that meet the live animal specifications, but not the meat quality specs. Animals known to be sired by an Angus bull meet the specs at a considerably higher rate than generic black cattle.

The black could come from Dexters. You can't say that if it's black it has to have Angus in there somewhere.

 

[dun]

The black could come from Dexters. You can't say that if it's black it has to have Angus in there somewhere.

Or Holsteins a couple of generations back

 

[Frankie]

From the OK State site:

According to the standards adopted by the American Dexter Cattle Association, the ideal three year old Dexter bull measures 38 to 44 inches at the shoulder and weighs less than 1000 pounds. The ideal three year old Dexter cow measures between 36 to 42 inches at the shoulder, and weighs less than 750 pounds. There are two varieties of Dexters, short legged and long legged or Kerry type. Milk and beef production and other characteristics are generally the same for both types. The same dam and sire may produce a short legged calf in one mating and a long legged calf the next.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you believe Simmental and Limousin breeders used Dexters to turn their breeds black? :roll:

CAB specs exclude animals with dairy influence.

Color was good enough for the USDA as proof of Angus influence. It's good enough for me.

 

[andybob]

I still believe the best Angus beef marketing strategy is the proven registered sire system used here in the UK, a point of interest, when I was buying Tuli stock some years ago, I was visiting Briggs Genetics, they wre using F1 Wagyu/Tuli cows to breed 3/4 Wagyu for the Kobe market at the time. The F1 steers were going as CAB, the black hide being from the Wagyu, and caecase quality from both breeds with the Wagyu adding marbeling+++.

 

[kenny thomas]

This is what I received from Mr. Fike of Certified Angus Beef.

Today, ten carcass specifications ensure that every carcass earning the Certified Angus Beef ® brand offers consumers the same quality eating experience. To receive the brand cattle must first be at least 51% black-hided or AngusSource ® enrolled and meet these criteria:

Modest or higher marbling
Medium or fine marbling texture
"A" maturity for each, lean and skeletal characteristics
10 to 16 square inch ribeye area
Less than 1,000 pound hot carcass weight
Less than 1 inch fat thickness
Superior muscling (restricts dairy influence)
Practically free of capillary rupture
No dark cutters
No neck hump exceeding 2 inches