The Rainbow Coalition

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

Here's a picture of a few calves off my Simm-Angus bull from last year. I swear I'll never use a crossbred bull again. I've got calves that are every color in the book. I'm surprised none of them are purple. The bull was black and even off my black cows I've got mostly red calves. :roll:
Those Shorthorn x cows raise real big calves now if I could only get them black.

 

[Copenhagen & Shiner B]

That is a nice stand of hardwood in the background and it would bring a pretty penny in South Carolina.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If you do get one of those purple calf's please post. Using a crossbreed bull has its drawbacks never know what is going to crawl out of the woodpile.

 

[cherokeeruby]

You wanted a purple cow? Here it is. ;-)

 

[Caustic Burno]

Dam thats an ugly cow

 

[frenchie]

Here's a picture of a few calves off my Simm-Angus bull from last year. I swear I'll never use a crossbred bull again. I've got calves that are every color in the book. I'm surprised none of them are purple. The bull was black and even off my black cows I've got mostly red calves. :roll:
Those Shorthorn x cows raise real big calves now if I could only get them black.

They at least appear to be solid coloured. :lol: :lol: about the time you don,t want them black you will finally get them there.

 

[Jake]

Dam thats an ugly cow

GEEZ, no kiddin... what's this world coming too at least it's not a gay pride purple...

 

[Workinonit Farm]

CRR, that is a colorful bunch! I like the horns on the red one on the left.

Katherine

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

CRR, that is a colorful bunch! I like the horns on the red one on the left.

Katherine

That's the one that took after me this spring right after she calved. She's calmed down a fair bit since then, though.

 

[dun]

If it's strictly a color issue as to using a crossbred bull, unless it's homozygous black you'll alwasy have the possibilty of off colored calves. Even with registeerd blk Angus bulls, if they're a red carrier you can get a few red calves. If the Simmenthal part of the cross is a traditionally marked or not a spot remover you van get some rather interesting spotting patterns also.

dun

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

If it's strictly a color issue as to using a crossbred bull, unless it's homozygous black you'll alwasy have the possibilty of off colored calves. Even with registeerd blk Angus bulls, if they're a red carrier you can get a few red calves. If the Simmenthal part of the cross is a traditionally marked or not a spot remover you van get some rather interesting spotting patterns also.

dun

I've got to learn how to get my animals to pose a little better. Here's a picture of my new bull. 'Blue Gentian Elixir 5P'. He looks funny in this picture because he's kinda half twisted around. He's Purebred Black Angus and hopefully this should solve the problem. He's only a yearling, though, so some of the poorer and later cows will spend the first three weeks with my other bull which is another Simm-Angus (yeah I know, but I won't be buying another one).

 

[fitz]

I agree w/Dun. If I put a Black Sim Bull on red/white Simmcross cows I may get black, or any shade between black and red with a strong possibility of white markings included. If the Sim Bull is homozygous black I may still get some white markings but my dominant color should be black. Haven't had a purple one yet.

 

[mtnman]

Please post a picture of the bull. My bet is that he is black with a blaze face. He is also a red gene carrier. If he doesn't have a white face, then that red cow with horns got bred by the neighbors bull. If she did, then some of the others could have too.


It looks to me like he greatly increased the unifomity of the color of your herd, and in one generation. He at least made them solid. Don't blame the crossbred bull, blame the lack of uniformity in you cow herd.

Your cows are what is causing the color problems, not the bull. If the bull is black, he can't throw the grey color or brown color of that calf on the roan cow, that came from her, not him. If he is black, then he doesn't carry those dilutions genes, they have to come from the cow. A solid black animal doesn't carry the dilution genes. That grey calf on the roan has black hide, therefore the grey diluter is coming from the cow, not the bull.

Next year, you will have mostly black calves from your Angus bull, but also a few greys, so I don't know what you'll be gaining other than less red, they will still be black and grey, just not black, and grey and red. Of course, you'll get rid of the whitefaces too, since the Angus is solid colored.

It's not the crossbred bulls fault, it is just the genetic combination you bought. He's got a gene for black, a gene for red, a gene for no white face, and a gene for whiteface. He's probably heterozygous polled, too. I've used and continue to use crossbred's that sire more uniformity than straightbreds. You just need to educate yourself about how simple traits are inherited.

mtnman

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

Please post a picture of the bull. My bet is that he is black with a blaze face. He is also a red gene carrier. If he doesn't have a white face, then that red cow with horns got bred by the neighbors bull. If she did, then some of the others could have too.


It looks to me like he greatly increased the unifomity of the color of your herd, and in one generation. He at least made them solid. Don't blame the crossbred bull, blame the lack of uniformity in you cow herd.

Your cows are what is causing the color problems, not the bull. If the bull is black, he can't throw the grey color or brown color of that calf on the roan cow, that came from her, not him. If he is black, then he doesn't carry those dilutions genes, they have to come from the cow. A solid black animal doesn't carry the dilution genes. That grey calf on the roan has black hide, therefore the grey diluter is coming from the cow, not the bull.

Next year, you will have mostly black calves from your Angus bull, but also a few greys, so I don't know what you'll be gaining other than less red, they will still be black and grey, just not black, and grey and red. Of course, you'll get rid of the whitefaces too, since the Angus is solid colored.

It's not the crossbred bulls fault, it is just the genetic combination you bought. He's got a gene for black, a gene for red, a gene for no white face, and a gene for whiteface. He's probably heterozygous polled, too. I've used and continue to use crossbred's that sire more uniformity than straightbreds. You just need to educate yourself about how simple traits are inherited.

mtnman

Actually, I consider myself fairly well educated when it come to genetics and I agree with you 100%. You are correct, the bull was black with a small white blaze on his face. I bought him from a breeder I didn't know well because I liked his conformation and he was relatively inexpensive. I didn't have the background on him to know if he was a red carrier or what composition his dam was. He also had scurs which made me a bit suspicious as far as being half Angus. The first year, the majority of my calves were black and pretty uniform. Last year I had more black cows and the calves were less uniform than the year before. This year 70% of my cows are black although I've been trying to breed in a red recessive on them just in case demand changes for color. Only 1/3 or so of my calves so far are pure black although a couple are black with a blaze face. Those two cows are kind of the exceptions in the herd particularly the white one. She is my fence tester so I always know when my fence isn't working because she will be out, she also is easy to see at night if I'm trying to find the herd. Anyway, I agree that it would be nice to have a homozygous black, polled Simm-Angus but that homozygous trait would be hard to guarantee. Even if you had a pure black Simmental dam, there is still a chance that she would have a red recessive which gives you a 50% chance of the bull being heterozygous.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

That is a nice stand of hardwood in the background and it would bring a pretty penny in South Carolina.

Actually, those are poplars and they aren't worth much except for firewood although the neighbors' house was built from lumber out of that stand many years ago.

 

[sidney411]

I really like your new bull. I bet he will do nicely for you.

Dam thats an ugly cow

Three legged at that!

 

[mtnman]

Thanks Cattle Rack:

I'm glad you understand. I have no problem with folks telling it like it is, so I appreciate your clarification. It sounds to me like you go the short end of the "Mendellian sampling" stick this year, but you know how the averages work.

4 years ago, we had a set of cows that went 5 bulls and 21 heifers. We expected that over the next few years, they would even back out to 50/50, but low and behold then very next year, they went 18 bulls and 7 heifers, so that sorted itself out more quickly than I expected.

If you are having more variation in other traits like weights, then that is probably something going on in the year, more than the bull. It just doesn't make sense that he would do great one year, and not the next.

mtnman

 

[Copenhagen & Shiner B]

That is a nice stand of hardwood in the background and it would bring a pretty penny in South Carolina.

Actually, those are poplars and they aren't worth much except for firewood although the neighbors' house was built from lumber out of that stand many years ago.

I am a timber buyer and we would kill for poplar like that in South Carolina.

 

[Beefy]

That is a nice stand of hardwood in the background and it would bring a pretty penny in South Carolina.

Actually, those are poplars and they aren't worth much except for firewood although the neighbors' house was built from lumber out of that stand many years ago.

I am a timber buyer and we would kill for poplar like that in South Carolina.

how much and what age/size?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

He also had scurs which made me a bit suspicious as far as being half Angus.

The scur gene is a sex-linked gene. If the Simmental sire/dam carried the scur gene & passed it on - the offspring MALE will be scurred. A FEMALE has to inherit two genes - one from dam & one from sire - to be EXPRESSED. If a female inherits one gene, she is just a carrier - it will not be expressed (shown).
So therefore, a Simm/Angus BULL can be 1/2 angus and still show scurs.

A black bull/cow of any breed can be DNA tested to know if he is heterozygous or homozygous polled. Costs about $35. Just pull tail switch hairs with root balls intact. Easy test.