The New Simmental/Red Angus Association

[Lon]

Thats correct and as I said >>> line 1 >> As I expected the Red Angus and Simmental Association is one --""working off the same base of EPD's.""

Many time folks jump to conclusions and don't finish the sentence which was working off the same base of EPD's

I know we will have some pooched mouthed BA breeders like the first 2 comments, but that's fine.. many times people that lack understanding talk bad about things and it is to be expected.have a nice day

JS

This is very true best thing i ever seen you write. everyone here knows in fact they could back threw your posts and 99% of them would be about how you are talking bad about things(other peoples cattle or every breed but simmental). you really do impress me every time i read one of your posts. i have met alot of know it all be nice in my life but you take the cake on how you can talk down about every breed but simmental than turn around and ask the same people you just talked down to for advice about good angus bull to use on your cows(if i am remembering write you were asking this). if you know so much why do you even take the time to grace us with your words of wisdom why arent you lecturing and putting on seminars showing people how they can make more money by letting thier low quality pasture sit idle while they start planting feilds of high quality millet to feed thier cattle. you ( :dunce: ) are one real special guy that is for sure.

 

[Isomade]

JScattle,

Have you even seen a MARC report the black Angus cow has caught/passed the continentals on WW, YW, while still maintaining a huge edge in IMF over them. Yeah and everyone is asking for a simmental bull to breed their heifers too.. :dunce:

And BTW the AAA joining the simmental assoc would be like the USA joining cuba. Really, why would they need to. The AAA runs EPDs for other associations, you want them to just throw the database and computing power in the dumpster. You are a piece of work. Sorry BRG but you can have him. :tiphat:

Just so everyone knows, JScattle is completely different than JustSimmental. Only one of them is a pompous azz. You got the wrong one.

 

[jscunn]

My apologies to jscattle, from jscunn. Thanks for keeping me straight Isomade

 

[Isomade]

My apologies to jscattle, from jscunn. Thanks for keeping me straight Isomade

:lol: I could just see JScattle getting on and someone telling him what an azz he is. :lol:

 

[3waycross]

Thats correct and as I said >>> line 1 >> As I expected the Red Angus and Simmental Association is one --""working off the same base of EPD's.""

Many time folks jump to conclusions and don't finish the sentence which was working off the same base of EPD's

I know we will have some pooched mouthed BA breeders like the first 2 comments, but that's fine.. many times people that lack understanding talk bad about things and it is to be expected.have a nice day

JS

This is very true best thing i ever seen you write. everyone here knows in fact they could back threw your posts and 99% of them would be about how you are talking bad about things(other peoples cattle or every breed but simmental). you really do impress me every time i read one of your posts. i have met alot of know it all be nice in my life but you take the cake on how you can talk down about every breed but simmental than turn around and ask the same people you just talked down to for advice about good angus bull to use on your cows(if i am remembering write you were asking this). if you know so much why do you even take the time to grace us with your words of wisdom why arent you lecturing and putting on seminars showing people how they can make more money by letting thier low quality pasture sit idle while they start planting feilds of high quality millet to feed thier cattle. you ( :dunce: ) are one real special guy that is for sure.

Very astute observation! Especially for a young fella :tiphat:

 

[Gators Rule]

this thread kind of makes me want to sell all my Simmi cattle so we're not members in the same organization! I would hate any association merging with another, not just Simmi and RA. Lots of cattle have qualities to lend to other breeds, and while I prefer Simmi (black or red) for my pasture, I know I could make the same argument for 3-5 other breeds which could just as easily fit into my pasture, and probably into my plans for the future.

You sir, lack social skills and the ability to use the vast amounts of information that opposes your self prescribed brilliancy.

 

[dun]

this thread kind of makes me want to sell all my Simmi cattle so we're not members in the same organization! I would hate any association merging with another, not just Simmi and RA. Lots of cattle have qualities to lend to other breeds, and while I prefer Simmi (black or red) for my pasture, I know I could make the same argument for 3-5 other breeds which could just as easily fit into my pasture, and probably into my plans for the future.

You sir, lack social skills and the ability to use the vast amounts of information that opposes your self prescribed brilliancy.

The reason they went to a common EPD base is to be able to process EPDs at a lower cost. Makes sense really. I wish a couple of other associations had gotten involved too.

 

[pk1]

None of this surprises me! If you have a look at the American cattle industry trend it has become hard to tell the difference between Black Simmis and Angus, most PB Simmis are 20% Angus anyway! It is true that Angus cattle have caught up with the Euro breeds in regards to growth and weaning weights. But it is only because the euro breeds have demolished all there original characteristics. if you went to Europe and witnessed real Limousins or Charolaise or Simmentals you would be SHOCKED at how different they are to the moderate deep sidded soggy made low birth weight high marbling American type euro is. Unfortunately when you start chasing marbling you loose muscle there is no correlation. (big problem with the Limousin breed at the moment). when you start selecting for lower birth and moderate frame you lose growth! I know right now your saying "ahh thats bullcrap" the problem with EPDs is that most studs/seedstock opperations in north America are putting weaner bulls straight into feedlots stuffing them with grain for 6 months and then selling them as yearlings looking all good and plump, while they are doing this they are collecting data like WW YW etc. The long term viability of feedlotting is questionable, it takes on average 3 kilos of grain to produce 1 kilo of beef. Chickens are 1 for 1 you can see where im going with this? most cattle farmers are finishing there calves on grass, how does that fit with the bull they just purchased who has been on grain for 6 months? I have used some of these bulls and got really disappointing results, once burnt never again. So combining Red Angus and Simmental EPDS does not surprise me at all. :banana:

 

[TexasBred]

js's alter ego speaking here I believe. :mrgreen:

 

[Gators Rule]

None of this surprises me! If you have a look at the American cattle industry trend it has become hard to tell the difference between Black Simmis and Angus, most PB Simmis are 20% Angus anyway!

How do you come up with this percentage?? Once upon a time, maybe so, but now the angus is generally way down the list, with the exception where a producer is gunning for SimAngus. I have two SimAngus, one a heifer I'll AI in March, and a bull calf that was born in early January. Those two are the only angus listed on any paper in my book, and I doubt I'm alone. Do the black Simmi's have Angus in them? Of course they do, but not 20% in my opinion. Not arguing, just disagreeing.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I come back on this site to this post!! Man, can't we just all agree not to read anything JS says?
We are all lucky to have so many great choices in what we breed - between breeds and within breeds. There are great cattle in all breeds.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

See what happens when your not around to defend your breed Jeanne.

 

[Massey135]

Will we see a time when cattle of all breeds are indexed on the same set of epds? You know, so that strait comparisons can be made and each breed's strenghts and weaknesses(relative to other breeds) can be accurately identified??

 

[Old_man_emu]

I come back on this site to this post!! Man, can't we just all agree not to read anything JS says?
We are all lucky to have so many great choices in what we breed - between breeds and within breeds. There are great cattle in all breeds.

I liked the bull in your avatar so much I checked out your website. Love the cows, particularly the EBS Savannah Gina, WOW what a cow!
Wonder how I can slip a couple of embyros from her onto the Angus Australia register ;-)

 

[Jake]

Will we see a time when cattle of all breeds are indexed on the same set of epds? You know, so that strait comparisons can be made and each breed's strenghts and weaknesses(relative to other breeds) can be accurately identified??

Not until there is a financial gain for the breeds to do so. There isn't a lot if justification for the associations to spend the money to do it when the demand for such a system isn't that high.

 

[dun]

Will we see a time when cattle of all breeds are indexed on the same set of epds? You know, so that strait comparisons can be made and each breed's strenghts and weaknesses(relative to other breeds) can be accurately identified??

Not until there is a financial gain for the breeds to do so. There isn't a lot if justification for the associations to spend the money to do it when the demand for such a system isn't that high.

The financial reasons are exactly why the Red Angus and Simmenthals got together. Sharing the costs of processing EPDs just makes sense to keep costs lower for the members.

 

[Jake]

The financial reasons are exactly why the Red Angus and Simmenthals got together. Sharing the costs of processing EPDs just makes sense to keep costs lower for the members.

I agree but I don't see the AAA wanting any part of it unless they are the ones on the winning side. It doesn't necessarily benefit them as they still control the market and making across breed EPDs may hurt them since they already run the data for some other associations. I think the effect on market share may be negative for black angus.

 

[dun]

The financial reasons are exactly why the Red Angus and Simmenthals got together. Sharing the costs of processing EPDs just makes sense to keep costs lower for the members.

I agree but I don't see the AAA wanting any part of it unless they are the ones on the winning side. It doesn't necessarily benefit them as they still control the market and making across breed EPDs may hurt them since they already run the data for some other associations. I think the effect on market share may be negative for black angus.

I agree, and that's probably why the vet that raises black angus has much higher fees then we have with the Red Angus.

 

[Baldie Maker]

The two associations first discussed changing their base to that of black angus, but feared if they did so that Angus would only change their base and comparison would no longer be possible between the three.

 

[JustSimmental]

Actually some PB Simm EPD's have been past Angus, forever -- for example >> WW, YW, CW, YG, BF, REA and yes PB Simm was lacking in other traits of economic importance, like BW, CE, Marb and Shr.

ASA was the first association to have a Sire summary, the first association to accept cattle regardless of COLOR and to realize that our future depended on a more marketable product and yes --using other breeds to improve PB Simmental was and is what it took to survive in an ever-changing environment.

You being from Australia, probably don't know of the differences of the cattle operations here in the US. Many of the operations in the US are "farmers with cattle" -- which means that they farm and have cattle on the side and are not really "cattlemen". Normally, the "farmers with cattle" group are the most uninformed group as this is not their real bread winner -- its a hobby or it is in addition to a job in town or in addition to farming.

The "farmers with cattle" group know about Monsanto and FSA programs. They shouldn't care what is going on in the Simmental and Red Angus associations and as you can see --they don't. Cattlemen they are not, but most of them do a good job farming. These folks have been on the farming dole so long that think it is normal.

Remember the old Nursery Rhyme Farmer in the dell --well since 1946 in the US it's been:
"Farmer on the Dole".

The ranchers in the US are the cattlemen -- meaning-- all they do is cattle and you can bet they use all the tools at their disposal (like EPD's) to assist them in decision making processes. I commend all of the ranchers in this country as we tend to be an independent lot, never taking monies from the fed govt, no "programs", etc.... you make it or you go to town and work.

You say that simmi EPD's have gone past black angus but are they actually directly comparable across breeds? They're not in Australia.
Umm and what of the fact that black and red simmi cattle look more like angus than PB simmi cattle because they have used ANGUS genetics to fix ANGUS traits to black and red simmi?