The Murray Grey Bull

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cmf1

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He's 3 years and three months old.
Right at 53 and a bit inches at the hip. Frame 4?
I'd have to guess at weight.
Second calf crop on the ground and I like what he did.

Just curious to see what kind of criticism and likes (if any) others might have with him.

Fire away cause I'm not proud and I don't bruise easy. But I am interested in others opinions and knowledge.

When I bought him at 14mos
tony.jpg


About a week ago
Tonyrightside.jpg

tonyrear1crop.jpg
 

angusdave63

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i think he is ok would he win in a show ring i am not sure but if his calves make you money thats the main thing i like a smaller framed bull myself using an angus bull that is a 5 frame i also have a red poll that is between 6 and 7 but i still like him alot as for your bull keep using him if he works for you David
 

3waycross

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Just a couple of thoughts.

He looks like two different bulls pasted together. His front does not match his rear end. He is a pretty good bull from his pelvic forward.

He has WAY too much slope from his hooks to his pins.

If he is strictly terminal he is just fine. I wouldn't keep heifers out of him.
 
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cmf1

cmf1

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I've thought that he has lost some of his perceived "balance" that I thought he possessed as a youngster.

Do you really think his pin/hook angle is dramatic enough to affect female progeny reproductive traits?
And to what degree?
 

3waycross

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cmf1":288nhuxb said:
I've thought that he has lost some of his perceived "balance" that I thought he possessed as a youngster.
I thought the same thing!

Do you really think his pin/hook angle is dramatic enough to affect female progeny reproductive traits?
YES maybe not REPRODUCTIVE but structural. His little nuts would affect their REPRODUCTIVE traits more.(at least they look little)
And to what degree?
A LOT! why would you want to incorporate such a glaring flaw into your cowherd. He has already shown you that he got worse with age. Why would you go out of your way to get more of the same. BTW what is his scrotal?

remember to try to stay away from extremes. The always seem to carry a price, sometimes it's apparent, and sometimes it sneaks up on ya.
 
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cmf1

cmf1

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Scrotal as a yearling was 36.

Maybe because I'm standing here looking at him, and maybe the photo is not perfect, but I'm not seeing a terrible angle hooks to pins.

He has been working for the last 30 days and gets only what grows where he's standing, so his bcs is probably down a bit.

I'll try to get another pic to evaluate the angle better.
Something I just have not noticed as awful in person.
 

backhoeboogie

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The first thing I noticed is that he is the most slick hided MG I have seen. Fuzzy cold climate animals get an immediate "no" from me. He'd also be a bonus for fly control in a herd with a hide like that. Especially for those of us surrounded by cattle herds.

He has flaws but we've all seen worse.
 

waihou

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To my way of looking he has a very steer- like head and neck, not a very masculine outlook, but his rear end is well muscled, so if he leaves good calves that is the main thing.

I have one or two cows with that sort of a rear end slope, and one person once told me, look at the structure of a wild buffalo, they slope like that and there is no-one out there to deliver their calves!
TCheyenne121210.jpg

This boy is 3yrs and 4 months, photographed in December, while out with 22 cows.

I did some measurements on him to see if he fitted in with the formulas I read online.
Sorry this is all in metric (we are down under in NZ!) He weighed 1010kgs, was 145cm at the hips (frame score 6), 43cm scrotum, length from tail to shoulder 145cm, heart girth 250cm.
He has left some good calves, first crop just weaned, best bull calf 401kgs at 245days (884 lbs?) was 44kgs born-(97lbs?) gain 1.46kgs/day is that about 3.2lbs? No extra feed except grass and milk.
DSC05993.jpg


This is the top bull calf, born 1st August, weaned 2nd April, photo 3 May
 
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cmf1

cmf1

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waihou,
I really like your stock as I have mentioned before.
My bull has not turned out like I thought he might when I got him.
On my cows he has done a good job, but there's always room for improvement and this will be his last go round here.
I'm actually fairly happy with the calves from him and he's not leaving because he hasn't done a good job.
In my mind he's out performing himself. In fact his calves have made it possible for me to upgrade.
I'm going to all registered stock now of MGs and Brahman. He did his job well and sold me on the breed.
I want to keep the bull at frame 4-5 and wide as I can going to lighter color also. Our heat is hot down here and though he doesn't appear to suffer from it, just seems like it'd be easier on a silver.

As for the hook/pin angle I went back to Dr. Bonsma's article on how to select functional cows and confirmed in my mind that flat line is what he termed "sub-fertile" or less functional, so I'm not as concerned with that aspect of the bull.

I might be PMing you about bloodlines available to me here for some input if that's okay.
Thanks for the input today.
 

Aero

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If you like his calves, it doesnt matter what he looks like or what his pedigree is - the whole reason for looking at that stuff is to guess what his calves ill look like... mystery solved.
 
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cmf1

cmf1

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Aero,

I agree.

But to improve on anything you've got to know where the faults are.

I know what I like and don't like about him.
But just in case I'm missing something (no doubt I am) I'd like to take all the input I can and compare it to my concerns and likes to make the best decision (or crapshoot) I can on the improvement.

Whole lot more knowledge and experience here than what I've got on my own.
 

W.T

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Your bull is not all that bad, His angle from hooks is preferred IMO it helps with calving ease. The slick hide is good also, and so is the set to the hocks bulls like that last a lot longer than the second bull with the posty legs, The only thing he needs is a little more bone, his heifers will last longer than the other bull from a structure stand point.
 

3waycross

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W.T":23hcxh3f said:
Your bull is not all that bad, His angle from hooks is preferred IMO it helps with calving ease. The slick hide is good also, and so is the set to the hocks bulls like that last a lot longer than the second bull with the posty legs, The only thing he needs is a little more bone, his heifers will last longer than the other bull from a structure stand point.


Great evualation. All the pictures are of the same bull........... :tiphat: :tiphat: :tiphat:

No offense intended but next time you decide to comment on a thread like this one it really helps to...read.....every......word. ;-)
 

W.T

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The first 3 pics are of a bull in Louisiana, and the last 2 bulls are in New Zealend. Or did i miss something.
 
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cmf1

cmf1

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Thanks for replying W.T.

This is where I'm depending on others Knowledge and experience.
My bull is not by any means overly masculine. But he expresses solid masculinity in his bull calves.
My bull is not overly feminine (in my mind) but expresses great femininity in his heifers.
At this point in my progression I would prefer more heifers and want them to be properly feminine with functional structure and longevity.
I know the cow is part of the mix, but I often wonder about the physiology of high masculine bulls creating quality feminine heifers versus a touch of feminine quality (or a little less masculinity) from the bull.
I Know for pounds which way I would go.
For useful heifers I'm just considering possibilities.
 

3waycross

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W.T":3h7eg5of said:
The first 3 pics are of a bull in Louisiana, and the last 2 bulls are in New Zealend. Or did i miss something.

If you think the White bull is posty you did!
 

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