llcupit
Well-known member
Well said aplusmnt!
The clones are coming!
- Thread starter Brandonm2
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
- Status
J&T Farm
Well-known member
One thing about cloning a mule is that you could sure have a matched team 
aplusmnt
Well-known member
J&T Farm":nyby7ry0 said:One thing about cloning a mule is that you could sure have a matched team
Never thought of that, I might have to change my view of cloning :lol: 4 perfectly matched mules like the one below pulling a wagon might change my mind.
J&T Farm
Well-known member
Thats a dandy mule right there. How tall is she.
aplusmnt
Well-known member
J&T Farm":1s59bpjk said:
Probably about 16.5 hands. We like her a lot she has some power that is for sure. I would love to have even two like her to pull a wagon with, but our other mules are little mismatched with her.
TxCoUnTrYbOy
Well-known member
I guess Im a little late, but Im gonna jump in on the clone situation now that we had a big discussion about it in class today.
Cloning does have its pros, but there are a lot of cons that most people wouldnt know about. There are 2 major cons.
First, unless they take sample cells from the animal when it is very young, when you clone the animal, it will be born "aged" its hard to explain, but if you take the cells to clone from a 4 year old bull, when the clone comes, it will have the genetic makup of that 4 year old bull. Its really hard to explain, but it will be like having a 4 year old bull in a newborn calf's body.
Second, the clone may not turn out exactly like the original animal, even though they are genetically the same. The environmental conditions play a huge factor on the way an animal turns out. Not to long ago at Texas A&M University (who leads the world in the number of cloned animals), a man brought his old cat in and dumped a load of money on the counter and said to clone his cat. They cloned it successfully, but it didnt look anything like the cat it came from. Turns out that the environmental conditions were different that the original and clone came from, so they did not look exactly alike. They were still genetically identical though. The man wanted his money back because the cats didnt look the same. Im pretty sure A&M wont clone peoples pets anymore, but I guess if you bring in enough money you could probably get it done.
Cloning does have its pros, but there are a lot of cons that most people wouldnt know about. There are 2 major cons.
First, unless they take sample cells from the animal when it is very young, when you clone the animal, it will be born "aged" its hard to explain, but if you take the cells to clone from a 4 year old bull, when the clone comes, it will have the genetic makup of that 4 year old bull. Its really hard to explain, but it will be like having a 4 year old bull in a newborn calf's body.
Second, the clone may not turn out exactly like the original animal, even though they are genetically the same. The environmental conditions play a huge factor on the way an animal turns out. Not to long ago at Texas A&M University (who leads the world in the number of cloned animals), a man brought his old cat in and dumped a load of money on the counter and said to clone his cat. They cloned it successfully, but it didnt look anything like the cat it came from. Turns out that the environmental conditions were different that the original and clone came from, so they did not look exactly alike. They were still genetically identical though. The man wanted his money back because the cats didnt look the same. Im pretty sure A&M wont clone peoples pets anymore, but I guess if you bring in enough money you could probably get it done.
If someone wanted to clone aperson they could do it very easily, right now. Secondly most scientists are moral people even ones that clone. "Organ farms" are not the issue at the forefront. Cattle Cloning is ok if you clone cows you don't support human organ farms. Secondly all clones are grown in-utero so they are born just like everything else. Again stay away from "the island" as a source of info on cloning. It really comes down to being responsible, we use the internet to talk about cows and look at pictures of cows. Terrorists use it to communicate and plan bombings, petophiles use it to find kids. Should we be anti internet? Cloning will have alot of good come from it but as is the way of the world someone will use it in a corrupt way and do things that are morally wrong.
This theory doesn't have any scientific backing that i have ever seen or heard of. I've asked where this comes from but it is usually dismissed as unfounded.
aplusmnt
Well-known member
Beef11":3n3e7ivj said:
Please tell me one good thing that come from Cloning that does not involve helping Mankind to live longer, or replace a dead human?
We do not need clones to feed the world.
We do not need clones to populate the earth, we already got to many people as it is.
There is enough good show animals out there, it is not like we need another super bull to save mankind.
We can get all the Mules we need by breeding a Donkey and Horse.
I am sure there is enough tadpoles in the world
Enough Mice, Sheep, carp, monkeys
Why do we need clones? If not to help either postpone death or replace death with an unnatural replacement?
Best argument I have heard yet for support of clones is so a guy could own a nice uniformed set of Mules.
We do not need to replace or prolong death, death is a important part of living. I figure if you believe in God it makes sense not to play God, and if you are an atheist then it makes sense to accept the evolutionary principal of survival of the fittest and allow man to evolve as he has for millions of years.
aplusmnt
Well-known member
On the previous discussion about epd's being different. Read this interesting information maybe it explains it or maybe not.
First, none of these techniques provide exact clones — they would be 99.7% identical to the DNA donor, because some important genes are present outside the nucleus, in mitochondria for example. Some of the DNA of the DNA donor would be missing for the clone to be an exact copy, and some of the resulting clone DNA would come from the donor egg-cell. How much change this would lead to in the clone is being investigated.
First, none of these techniques provide exact clones — they would be 99.7% identical to the DNA donor, because some important genes are present outside the nucleus, in mitochondria for example. Some of the DNA of the DNA donor would be missing for the clone to be an exact copy, and some of the resulting clone DNA would come from the donor egg-cell. How much change this would lead to in the clone is being investigated.
1. Disease resistance research (kids aren't sick as much)
2. The quicker improvement of adapted livestock species in undeveloped countrys.
3. Cancer research (kids with cancer tear me up)
the list goes on
I believe God gave us a mind and Dominion we are to make the best of it.
Look at how AI and ET have changed the cattle industry. Then it went into the human world and it helps people with fertility problems have kids. I guess if you think there are to many people in the world already then that might be a bad thing. Cloning is just another tool we will learn from it and better the world one step at a time.
auctionboy
Well-known member
aplusmnt":vdwh4dfi said:J&T Farm":vdwh4dfi said:One thing about cloning a mule is that you could sure have a matched team
Never thought of that, I might have to change my view of cloning :lol: 4 perfectly matched mules like the one below pulling a wagon might change my mind.
Your response makes me sick! If the outcome of cloning is better for one person, or would help them they loose there morals! People today are sick.
aplusmnt
Well-known member
Beef11":3us4v2yw said:
Sounds like to me you are talking about Stem Cell research! Please explain why having a clone of someone would ever help cure the problems you mention above?
There is an argument for stem cell research helping to cure cancer or diseases. But a clone has nothing to do with this.
How would the world having another Beef11, Caustic, Crowder, dun ever help to cure cancer? O wait I know if Caustic had liver Cancer then they could make a new Caustic and give him the liver. Other than that I see no help in solving Cancer because you duplicate an already existing human?
As far as #2 God has already gave us enough types of cattle to fit any need around the world plus from what Frankie tells us all we need is Angus anyway :lol:
TxCoUnTrYbOy
Well-known member
aplusmnt":nitzo2x3 said:
I believe your logic is wrong there. If Caustic had liver cancer, and they made a new Caustic, the new one would develop liver cancer just as the old one. They are genetically identical, meaning any bad genes in one would show up in another, they have the same genes. They could clone someone with a good liver. My professor mentioned that too, where they could clone a perfectly healthy person and just use them for an organ donor. Ive heard of them using organs from a hog for people too, I guess some of a hogs organs are close enough to a persons that the body wouldnt reject them.
EDIT. Nevermind, you may be right about the cancer thing. I forgot that cancer is a mutation of the cells due to an environmental factor.
aplusmnt
Well-known member
auctionboy":283328ab said:
I invite you much like I did Beef11 to show me one way having an extra auctionboy running around on the earth will help solve, cancer, any other diseases or hunger?
auctionboy
Well-known member
aplusmnt":2fyyx6h3 said:
I am against cloning! Why would I want another auctionboy around bidding me up?
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
I hear the train a coming, its rolling round the bend, gonna lock this one down..........
With Genetically Identical animals "mice" we can keep them in a contemorary group Establishing exact enviromental conditions and 1 genetic profile. Then we can do experiments and see if the "thought of" cancer agent is truly causing cancer. This will also work backwards with treatments.
In science the hardest part about research is taking out the variables or accounting for them accuratly. Cloning takes out the genetic variable. Research will go much quicker. Mapping the genome will also help this out so we can so whats going on alittle better than before.
As far as building new Caustics for new parts we're back to "the island" Is Brokeback moutain an accurate assessment of your operation? A clone is an identical twin, born in the United states they would be guaranteed Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
A CLONE IS AN ET CALF WITH THE SAME GENETIC MAKEUP (LIKE AN IDENTICAL TWIN) AS THE ANIMAL THE DNA WAS TAKEN FROM.
If you have yoursefl cloned you couldn't legally lock it up in the basement for parts. If thats what you're worried about start checking basements, kids would work great for parts and they are way cheaper than cloning yourself.
In Closing PLEASE quit feeding me this hollywood crap as the real problems with cloning.
aplusmnt
Well-known member
Beef11":1tdn4c6m said:
So you gave me some bla bla reasons for cloning a mice.
But you still have not answered the question why would we ever need a human clone? There is no practical or ethical reason for a human clone. And if you think the cloning for human parts is so outlandish then why are they already working on it with somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT).
Scientist are already using the process of Cloning to make spare organs, not sure the amount of success that has happened so far but it is going on in Research Cloning. To think it will not happen with Reproductive Cloning is naive.
Personally I have no use for cloned animals I admit it is a Morality issue for me. But I really could care less what they do to animals. I am no Peta person, eat them clone them I do not care.
But when it comes to cloning a human to me it is more than a morality issue, it is an ethical issue. It serves no purpose and surely none that would merit the mongoloids that will come from it or individuals with accelerated aging. It is no different than just grabbing a Baby and doing research and experiments on them, much like Hitler did. Only difference is Hitler stole babies from their mom's and Clones were made in a lab.
And as for embryonic Stem Cell research, what a pretty picture we got here. A bunch of women getting pregnant and then selling their embryo's (future children) to a lab to do research on. How advanced have we become when a poor person could sale their seeds of life (embryo's) much like they can a quart of blood for a bottle of booze.
Kind of funny isn't it in one building we have scientist working on Nuclear weapons to destroy mankind and then in another building we have scientist working on away to reinvent the human race from cloning. :?
So, would you outlaw fertilitity treatments for couples who haven't been able to have children? There are thousands of human embryos setting in nitrogen tanks around the US. Sooner or later, they will be destroyed. Why not use them for life saving medical research if the owners (parents) want to donate them? Why is it better to flush them down the drain?
- Status
