The Bull or the Cow

Help Support CattleToday:

novatech

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
4,830
Reaction score
2
Location
Brenham, Texas
Mostly a role of the dice. Secondly it depends on the heritability of the trait.
Also would depend on the strength of the genetics. For instance line bred bulls are more likely to pass on genetics than cross bred.
 

Brandonm22

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
1,848
Reaction score
0
I think we all know that the genetics are 50:50, though it is like tossing a coin you can get heads or tails 5 times in a row. Now a cow that goes through the fences, runs at the sight of a person, fights in the pens, etc is going to raise calves with the same character flaws as she is responsible for all the early learned behaviors no matter how docile a bull you breed her to.
 

IluvABbeef

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
3,630
Reaction score
0
novatech":2klz291g said:
Mostly a role of the dice. Secondly it depends on the heritability of the trait.
Also would depend on the strength of the genetics. For instance line bred bulls are more likely to pass on genetics than cross bred.

This would sound less confusing if it was put this way: Purebred cattle, be they cows or bulls, are more likely to pass on predictable genetics to their offspring than crossbred animals or "mutt" animals. For example, Angus cows that are homozygous for the black hide gene will, predictably, pass on the black-hided gene to thier offspring, no matter what breed of bull they are bred to, with exception for those who have the colour dilution gene in their genetics like Charolais. A crossbred cow or bull bred to a crossbred bull or cow will give a calf with phenotypical characteristics that are far less predictable than their purebred counterparts.

As for the OP's question, it is simply a matter of a roll of the dice or a flip of a coin, like Brandon and novatech said. If we are talking about breeding two different breeds together in the goal of getting an F1 calf with hybrid vigour, I can't think of an example where a bull or a cow is able to produce a calf with traits that is only expressed from that bull or cow if bred to a cow or bull of a different breed. For instance, you certainly won't get an all-black or all-red calf if you breed a Hereford cow to an Angus bull or vice versa. An exception would be breeding a Red Angus cow to an Angus bull to produce a black calf that is still considered purebred Angus by the Angus breed standards (hope I'm right here Frankie) but this calf does not express any hybrid vigour because of the way the genetics of the Angus and Red Angus breeds are so closely linked.

In short, I think the OP's question is a loaded one, full of textbook-long explanations of dominance and recessive trait characteristics.
 

Brandonm22

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
1,848
Reaction score
0
A mixed up mutt passes on just as many genes to his calves as a tightly linebred sire does (exactly 50% of the calves DNA); but since the mutt is heterorzygous for almost everything it is impossible to predict which genes he will pass on to any given calf.
 

Jogeephus

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
24,228
Reaction score
1
Location
South Georgia
Brandonm22":1nmfpuld said:
A mixed up mutt passes on just as many genes to his calves as a tightly linebred sire does (exactly 50% of the calves DNA); but since the mutt is heterorzygous for almost everything it is impossible to predict which genes he will pass on to any given calf.

Why ya'll want to go calling my cattle mutts? :lol2:

I agree with what ya'll have said but I will say that it is highly likely if breed breed a cull mutt to a good bull the majority of the calves seem to pick up more of the traits of the bull than the dam. Or at least this seems to be the case. I guess if I went down anymore on the gene pool I'd be calving goats. ;-) :lol2:
 

Jogeephus

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
24,228
Reaction score
1
Location
South Georgia
Red Bull Breeder":3iq4h5cc said:
When dealing with high powered cattle such a inbalancers what is the need for a good bull Jo??

:lol2: :lol2: I guess you are right. After all the years of careful deselection and degradation of the gene pool why would one want to go backards. Heck, I might even make a good living by just threatening to use a breeders bulls and boast that I do. Or would this be considered extortion? :lol2: :lol2:
 

jedstivers

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
5,787
Reaction score
1
Location
Marianna Arkansas (East Central)
Nothing scientific and no facts to back it but I was raised up by the older group of stock-men who would be in their 90's if they were still here and they always said the bull was more than 50% of the calf. That's how we used to do on picking bulls and it seamed it was right. However on some of the things they have since been proven wrong but they were right about more than they were wrong. Wish I had them here now to ask questions.
 

aussie_cowgirl

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,228
Reaction score
1
Location
Western Australia
In theory the cow because the Y chromasome is useless, which is why men are more susceptible to sex linked genetic conditions. It has nothing to do with "stronger genes" or what ever, merely the fact the Y chromasome is missing most genes found on the X chromasome, this means the calf is more likely to reflect the mother in traits found on the sex chromasomes if it is a male due to many genes being a single allele. In female progeny the sire and dam are equal (because she has recieved an X chromasome from both parents).
 

alacattleman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
4,141
Reaction score
0
Location
heart of dixie
Brandonm22":27vhc5xg said:
A mixed up mutt passes on just as many genes to his calves as a tightly linebred sire does (exactly 50% of the calves DNA); but since the mutt is heterorzygous for almost everything it is impossible to predict which genes he will pass on to any given calf.
exactly......... instead of breeding for a certain trait you get a grab bag
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
12,258
Reaction score
1,122
Location
Central Upstate New York
jedstivers - it was always said that the bull has the greatest influence on your herd, because he represents 1/2 of your calfcrop for several years.
aussie-cg - this is interesting, but I'm not quite sure I understand - well, I'm sure I DON'T understand.
I thought I was following what you were saying, until you said "this means the calf is more likely to reflect the mother in traits found on the sex chromasomes if it is a male". I was expecting you to say FEMALE. So, can you explain it in even MORE laymen's terms????? :lol:
 

angus9259

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
2,856
Reaction score
26
Location
Michigan
TheBullLady":3s28cex3 said:
In my opinion, the cow. Nothing scientific about my opinion either.. just what I've seen over the years.

This has been my experience as well. I'm sure it's not scientific, but those dams sure seem to stamp their kids. I'll ai cows with different bulls every year and they all seem to come out looking just like their mommas.
 

aussie_cowgirl

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,228
Reaction score
1
Location
Western Australia
Jeanne - Simme Valley":a6gge339 said:
jedstivers - it was always said that the bull has the greatest influence on your herd, because he represents 1/2 of your calfcrop for several years.
aussie-cg - this is interesting, but I'm not quite sure I understand - well, I'm sure I DON'T understand.
I thought I was following what you were saying, until you said "this means the calf is more likely to reflect the mother in traits found on the sex chromasomes if it is a male". I was expecting you to say FEMALE. So, can you explain it in even MORE laymen's terms????? :lol:

Haha. Ok. Heres a picture. (Pictures are easy right? :))
homologous_and_hemizygous.gif

A female's sex genes are XX and a males are XY so if the child is a male it has recieved the Y chromosome from Dad and the X from Mum (seeing as males pass on the Y chromosome.) And as you can see from the picture, the Y chromosome is a sorry looking guy who is missing a huge chunk of the genes contained on the X chromosome. So a bull calf gets its X chromosome from Mum and Y from Dad, but because the Y chromosome is missing so much info, the genes on the X chromosome he got from Mum are most likely to be expressed. Does that make more sense? I get carried away sometimes, sorry :oops:
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
12,258
Reaction score
1,122
Location
Central Upstate New York
Aussie-cg - that was super - got it!!! you did great :tiphat:
That explains a lot. Originally, when we were building our herd, our heifers were always better than our male calves. We always chalked it up as "good luck". But, in the beginning, our AI sires were superior to our cows. So, if the dam was the heaviest influence on male calves & the sire had equal influence on the heifer calves, you would see slightly better heifers than bulls if the sire was superior to the dam.
Do I have it right???
 

alacattleman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
4,141
Reaction score
0
Location
heart of dixie
ive got one cow that makes has a great bull calf no matter what i breed her too . but the heifers are decent. ive only retained one from her . because this cow is top notch as far as soundness ,fertility,stays in great flesh.year round ....but i wonder if she were a human would she be masculine for a women
 

Latest posts

Top