TEXAS SIDE OF BEEF

[Anonymous]

i've noticed a lot of post about angus from blackpower and others, ... sure angus has some positives and negatives, but however--.. you would definately not have the same luck with your cattle in texas... triple didget temps.. (for example last week.. 106 109 111 109 106).. your angus cattle would not put on the weight like select other breeds because of that black hide... just some food for thought.. think about all you say before you start trashing other breeds, and crosses... angus may work great in your part of the country, but here they have a hard time J.P.

 

[Anonymous]

And it's just a co-incidence that hot countries have darker skinned people as native inhabitants?

By that reasoning, Charolais are the only cattle that should be used in Texas. They are more prone to sunburn than dark pigmented cattle. Guess generalizations don't hold.

I have sold cattle to Texas that have done quite well in the heat.

Proper management will allow any good cattle to thrive, but selecting cattle just for heat tolerance alone is just as bad as any single trait selection.

Jason Trowbridge Southern Angus Farms Alberta Canada

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[Anonymous]

I live in east Texas and only have 25 cows. Two are reg. black angus and the rest are a mix of everything. The two black angus are the only two of the 25 that stay in the pond on these hot summer days. I also have 4 or 5 black brangus and they don't seem to need the cool water as much as the black angus. Other than that little difference, they are really good cows.

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[Anonymous]

Some interesting things to think about in this message thread! Guess it's scientific that darker colors absorb heat more than lighter colors. On the other perspective, is interesting to note that a lot of people in the world who live in very hot and dry and/or hot and humid climates have dark skin...but some of them in 3rd world countries wear very few clothes.

Suppose heat or cold tolerance is somewhat genetic and/or bred in. To wit: I was born and raised in Texas...can tolerate the heat, even in 100 + range (even if for short period of time without cooling off). My wife was born in Minnesota...she can't take the heat here and does her work in late afternoon and evening outside (and in winter). I also have a Siberian Husky that I rescued several years ago...she has a heavy undercoat that is SLOW to shed in the summer (90% usually by late August)...she is not clipped since "experts" recommended the undercoat is insulation against heat and cold.

Not sure what answer is on color and heat tolerance....

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[Anonymous]

> By that reasoning, Charolais are
> the only cattle that should be
> used in Texas. They are more prone
> to sunburn than dark pigmented
> cattle. Guess generalizations
> don't hold.

... my statement of a select few breeds seem to do better in the heat... brahman and brahman cross can handle it angus with all its hair and color have a more difficult time... charolais do well and many other breeds, you say the blacks stay in the pond more?? that leads to show the others are out eating and gaining weight where those blacks could be eating and gaining but they are sitting in the pond .... common sense ought to tell you a few things...but then again that can be found lacking with some people

J.P.

 

[Anonymous]

JP, i'm a little confused about the 'lack of common sense' statement, I was agreeing with you with my statement of the black angus being in the pond!

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[Anonymous]

Prodding me again, aren't you? Exactly the angus arrogance (please note that I haven't noticed any RED angus breeders who act this way) that causes me to counter your unsupported, biased and WRONG claims.

You angus blowhards are perfectly happy to promote single trait selection as long as it is a black hide. Just one factual comment, that makes the correct observation that, black hided angus do not work the best in some environments and you start more BS. But I am sure by your rationalization, that Canadians know more than Texans about running cattle in hot environments. Give me a break.

Accept it that purebred angus are not the answer to everything.

> And it's just a co-incidence that
> hot countries have darker skinned
> people as native inhabitants?

> By that reasoning, Charolais are
> the only cattle that should be
> used in Texas. They are more prone
> to sunburn than dark pigmented
> cattle. Guess generalizations
> don't hold.

> I have sold cattle to Texas that
> have done quite well in the heat.

> Proper management will allow any
> good cattle to thrive, but
> selecting cattle just for heat
> tolerance alone is just as bad as
> any single trait selection.

> Jason Trowbridge Southern Angus
> Farms Alberta Canada

 

[Anonymous]

> JP, i'm a little confused about
> the 'lack of common sense'
> statement, I was agreeing with you
> with my statement of the black
> angus being in the pond!

sorry that wasn't pointed at you my bad

 

[Anonymous]

my point exactly John S.

 

[Anonymous]

No bredd or cross is the answer for all situations. But, there is a very real need for seedstock producers that listen to their customers and provide the genetics that are the right fit for crossbreeding programs. Without the pure breeds we would be reduced to using guess and hope breeding pratcies. On another note. The only cow we have that has problems with our heat and humidity is a Red Angus that melts away and looks like a Holstein during the heat. Of the black Angus, all of them carry their condition through the summer, except one that gets fat on fescue. That said, if we moved to the gulf coast or back to the desert you can bet we would have Brahman influence.

dun

> Prodding me again, aren't you?
> Exactly the angus arrogance
> (please note that I haven't
> noticed any RED angus breeders who
> act this way) that causes me to
> counter your unsupported, biased
> and WRONG claims.

> You angus blowhards are perfectly
> happy to promote single trait
> selection as long as it is a black
> hide. Just one factual comment,
> that makes the correct observation
> that, black hided angus do not
> work the best in some environments
> and you start more BS. But I am
> sure by your rationalization, that
> Canadians know more than Texans
> about running cattle in hot
> environments. Give me a break.

> Accept it that purebred angus are
> not the answer to everything.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not in Texas, but I'm close and have been a memeber of the Texas Angus Assn. There were more registered Angus cattle transferred to Texans last year than any other state. The demand for Angus bulls in Texas has suprised even people who promote Angus in Texas. They are also selling well in Louisiana. I was at a sale in NE Texas in the spring and a fellow from Arkansas was buying 7-8 month old bull calves split off their dams at the sale for $800-$1200. He said he could take them to Arkansas, feed them out and make a good profit. The demand for Angus is growing there, too. If you don't think Angus can work in Texas, take a look at the bull test station down at Washington, TX. Here's a link to their site. Compare the Angus gains on test with other breeds. They do quite well. <A HREF="http://texasbulltest.com/" TARGET="_blank">http://texasbulltest.com/</A>

> i've noticed a lot of post about
> angus from blackpower and others,
> ... sure angus has some positives
> and negatives, but however--.. you
> would definately not have the same
> luck with your cattle in texas...
> triple didget temps.. (for example
> last week.. 106 109 111 109 106)..
> your angus cattle would not put on
> the weight like select other
> breeds because of that black
> hide... just some food for
> thought.. think about all you say
> before you start trashing other
> breeds, and crosses... angus may
> work great in your part of the
> country, but here they have a hard
> time J.P.

 

[Anonymous]

I also agree with you on that point dunmovin, i raise seedstock myself and have a strict program based on genetics epd's and conformation, you are 100% right in the statement that GOOD seedstock producers are needed in every breed, or we will fall out to poor cattle which grade out pathetically at the meat market

JP

 

[Anonymous]

i didn't say they couldn't work, i said it is more difficult for them to work... any breed can "work" it just depends on the management and how much you are willing to spend

 

[Anonymous]

> i didn't say they couldn't work, i
> said it is more difficult for them
> to work... any breed can
> "work" it just depends
> on the management and how much you
> are willing to spend

From 1912 thru the 1930's the USDA and private breeders were looking for a breed that was heat tolant. The streight Angus was not. The USDA experiment station in Jeanerette, Louisiana was used to develope a controled cross using registered Brahman and registered Angus. They tried several amounts of Brahman influnce and settled on 1/4 Brahman 3/4 Angus. Private breeders took it to another level and started the American Brangus Breeders Association in 1949 (later changed to International Brangus Breeders Association, IBBA) settleing on 3/8 Brahman and 5/8 Angus, solid black and polled. Both sire and dam must be recorded with the IBBA. Foundation Angus and Brahman cattle must be registered in their respective breed association and must pass inspection prior to being enrolled with the IBBA. Intermediate crosses necessary to reacgh the 3/8 - 5/8 percentage are certified by the IBBA.

Angus cattle have not changed over the years regarding heat tolerance. The Certified Angus Beef marketing program have made them more popular. Brangus will quilify for the CAB program and grade the same as Angus. Brangus will also "grow hair" for northern climates as well. As many breeders have agreeded, "Any Country is Brangus Country".



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[Anonymous]

Brangus
> will also "grow hair"
> for northern climates as well. As
> many breeders have agreeded,
> "Any Country is Brangus
> Country".

Good points and good information until your last sentence. You posted such good information and then fell headlong into the "black" trap, thinking that your breed is the answer to everything.

I guess Brangus will work well in the north, as long as you consider Kansas as the north country. Brahman influenced cattle do NOT handle the cold as well as non-brahman or non-bos indicus types PERIOD.

 

[Anonymous]

> Brangus

> Good points and good information
> until your last sentence. You
> posted such good information and
> then fell headlong into the
> "black" trap, thinking
> that your breed is the answer to
> everything.

> I guess Brangus will work well in
> the north, as long as you consider
> Kansas as the north country.
> Brahman influenced cattle do NOT
> handle the cold as well as
> non-brahman or non-bos indicus
> types PERIOD.

John S., The black color is an ecomonic driven reason to produce black calves. I didn't make that up. I can remmember when red was the color of choice. The cycle will comtinue to move from type and color as time passes. As far as Brangus being the "answer to everything", it is not, however they will compliment most other breeds and turn them black to gain more money at the sale barn. Brangus will tolerate cold climates even as for north as Canada where there are several breeders. The Canadians were involved in the development of Brangus.



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[Anonymous]

They're cross-breeding with the Angus bulls down here.

 

[Anonymous]

> They're cross-breeding with the
> Angus bulls down here.

They are also many more Angus ranches in production in Texas than as little as ten years ago. Angus seems to be the predominate breed in Texas now.

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[Anonymous]

> They are also many more Angus
> ranches in production in Texas
> than as little as ten years ago.
> Angus seems to be the predominate
> breed in Texas now. All cattle have their good and bad points. The beef world has become quite carried away with the Angus. Here in Australia,hopefully things are starting to level out. Some cattle buyers at our saleyards won't touch Angus.I can remember 30 years ago there were not many Angus about,not many people wanted them ,they were small in some cases about the size of the Galloway,their temperament was no where near the docility of the lovely Galloway. Yes Australia needed a bit of a size boost. Now if I was an Angus breeder I would have concerns for the enormous gene pool loss that may occur if Angus breeders continue to use so much semen from a few select American or Canadian sires. Seems that breeders haven't acquired the skills that Charolais or Brahman breeders have in this country by using import blood, breed an Australian adapted animal then move on. There is no way that I could confidently use an Angus bull to help allay any calving problems. It just doesn't happen with the infusion of dubious American genetics. I am still puzzled as to how an old Scootish breed could have had such a massive increase in frame score without some other influence perhaps of Chianina. This point has i believe affected Angus in our country especially with doing ability and calving ease. We will only use an Angus bull with all Australian or New Zealand blood and only to breed black baldys as a good mum to cross our Brahmans and South Devons over. I think the Angus discussion has gone on for long enough lets move on to some other breed to bag for a while.



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[Anonymous]

> They are also many more Angus
> ranches in production in Texas
> than as little as ten years ago.

Agree! People are not as worried about how they perform in this climate as they were years ago. I've seen my fair share of Angus bulls standing in the shade while their non-Angus cows were out grazing --- but if they get the cows bred (however and whenever they do it!) and don't fall apart themselves that's all that counts.

> Angus seems to be the predominate
> breed in Texas now.

Not by a LONG shot. Now, if you just want to look at which breed has the most bulls currently on test at places like the Navasota test station I would agree there are more Angus there than other breeds. I think that is partly because the Angus guys, far more than the other breeders, are more active in testing, measuring, EPDs, promotion, etc. But there is definitely a good amount of demand in Texas, including the coastal regions, for Angus bulls to use as sires (mostly for terminal sires I would guess) due to heterosis and the fact that (whether justified or not) black calves generally bring a few cents more per pound than comparable non-blacks. In my area there are still a helluva lot of guys using black Brangus bulls on all sorts of cow breeds and I don't think they throw that awfully much "ear" or "hump". In my travels around the coastal area I don't see a lot of cow herds that are Angus, but I do see a lot of black bulls, both Angus and Brangus, in with all sorts of breeds of cows.