Terminology questions

[63DH8]

By now 63DH8 I guess you can see the the dreaded "creep feed" disease can effect some owners as well as their cattle! ;-) :lol: This can get to be a smoken hot topic at times! Mostly when it conserns buying bulls or replacement cattle that have had the disease growing up. Not because of drought ect. but because the seller whats their cattle and calves to look better then they really are!

Just a thought for you to think over. When you buy a cow or bull do you want to know it will stay in good condition on grass and good hay? or.... do think you should have to feed it grain for it to stay in the condition you bought it? :idea:

Personally, I feel you shouldn't have to supplement the cattle with grain for it to stay the same if your environment is what the cow or bull had adapted to as a breed. In fact, if the breed is allowed to die, breed, and survive in the environment that is in, the breed should be stronger with-in that environment due to the stronger, or the more hardship resistant the animal become. Those who can not survive will die. Those who can survive better in that environment will continue to live on and breed.

However... This isn't conductive to the needs of the individual who is in ranching as a business (profit). Meat is sold by the pound. If the rancher can sell a cow or bull that weighs more, he or she gets more $$$ per head. Because fat is gained on cattle, or any other animal, easier and faster than muscle, graining cattle make them gain weight (fat) faster. Granted, muscle weighs more per cubic inch than fat, muscle can't increase as fast as fat. Therefore, to make the animal gain weight faster, ranchers are forced to feed their cattle grain for faster weight gain for more bucks per head.

Another factor for feeding grain is marbling. Marbling makes the meat tender and tasty for the consumer. It's demanded, so the feed lots do it. My personal opinion is, if the feed lots are going to do it, why are the ranchers doing it?

Now for me.... Would I grain feed my cattle? I think I may if only to keep the cattle people friendly, and so they'll come easier when it's time to load them or butcher them. Also, if there is a medical condition that requires it, then I would.

 

[63DH8]

I look at all the graphics and stuff in your posts 63dh and it begs the question - "What is a search button"?

Who are the PB folks on here who creep their calves weights up? Enquiring minds want to know!

For $200 Angus, What is the button that one presses to bring up the JavaScript page so one can look up topics that one is curious about, but only ends up with total confusion when one finds contradicting answers to one's questions?

 

[MikeC]

Because fat is gained on cattle, or any other animal, easier and faster than muscle, graining cattle make them gain weight (fat) faster.

Not entirely true. It takes much more energy to put on a pound of fat than it does a pound of muscle.(I've read as much as 4x the energy)

Takes more time to gain fat also because that comes towards the end of the finishing period.

More efficient cattle cattle put on lean vs fat.

 

[Alice]

Sir, I've never held myself out to be anything other than someone that raises sale barn baby calves...

Alice I will try and be nice since you are a lady but............ After reading your above post I am finding it hard to understand why the ---- you have been posting on the topic of creep feeding! :help: :help: :roll:

Because, my brother and I were keeping 60 head of jersey heifers and 6 jersey bulls for someone until he could get them shipped out. We fed them for as long as we could afford it...about 3 months, then we told the guy they had to go. We were not going to let them get down due to the drought, and it had gotten to a point that we knew the guy wouldn't be able to afford to pay us for the feed. We'd gotten to a point that we (I) threw in the labor for free...but we could only go so far.

No, it's not creep feeding as is known by only allowing calves to eat. We fed "creep feed" because it is the stuff that supplements forage during droughts. And, the dairies were buying the stuff by the truck load to do the same thing. Creep feed and creep feeding are literally two different things, I suppose. However, it does have to do with a lack of forage (it is not grain per se), and I just got tired of splitting hairs when it comes to taking care of animals that I, or anyone else, has commited a responsibility toward. When the ox is in the ditch, as it were. If I've not been able to explain my stance, then he11, nail me. I'm really tired of having to justify myself when it comes to making certain animals in my care will be attended to, by God.

Alice

Alice, you just keep on making your own definitions of creep feeding, and you keep mentioning God, because it makes you right!!

Some of us are tired of people who have no clue as to the basic terminology ( creep feed, creep fed ) posting on those subjects.

Ya' know, I've sat here and typed out about 4 different responses and erased every one of them...'cause I decided that, buddy, you ain't worth the time.

Alice

 

[backhoeboogie]

More efficient cattle cattle put on lean vs fat.

MikeC, you're just plain good.

The only point to add is that some cattle can get fat on just plain old grass. No feed needed.

 

[63DH8]

Because fat is gained on cattle, or any other animal, easier and faster than muscle, graining cattle make them gain weight (fat) faster.

Not entirely true. It takes much more energy to put on a pound of fat than it does a pound of muscle.(I've read as much as 4x the energy)

Takes more time to gain fat also because that comes towards the end of the finishing period.

More efficient cattle cattle put on lean vs fat.

Dang! How'd I do on the rest of the answers?

 

[AngusLimoX]

I look at all the graphics and stuff in your posts 63dh and it begs the question - "What is a search button"?

Who are the PB folks on here who creep their calves weights up? Enquiring minds want to know!

For $200 Angus, What is the button that one presses to bring up the JavaScript page so one can look up topics that one is curious about, but only ends up with total confusion when one finds contradicting answers to one's questions?

Too busy with cattle to mess with computer crap or arguing with phony sheet disturbers, you listen to Alice, you and her are a match.

 

[63DH8]

More efficient cattle cattle put on lean vs fat.

Out of curiosity, are efficient cattle the norm or the exception to the rule? I got the impression that Long Horns are efficient cattle. They had to be to survive what their history said they went through.

 

[MikeC]

More efficient cattle cattle put on lean vs fat.

MikeC, you're just plain good.

The only point to add is that some cattle can get fat on just plain old grass. No feed needed.

I'll take that as a compliment. :lol:

My opinion on this is.........(for whatever it's worth)

MOST cattle can gain efficiently on grass, given that it has the same nutrients and energy that are in most feeding rations.

If we took forage samples correctly and fed them grass that has a balance of nutrients we would have fat cattle.

But nowdays it's cheaper to drylot them than it is to graze them. The cost of gain in the feedlot is around $0.50 per pound now. Do the math on grazing and fertilizing properly down here.

 

[63DH8]

Too busy with cattle to mess with computer crap or arguing with phony sheet disturbers, you listen to Alice, you and her are a match.

Angus, to tell you the truth, I wasn't sure where you were going with your question. I used the search button and ended up with contradicting answers. This thread should be proof that there are differing and contradicting opinions on topics. I couldn't find answers to my questions by searching, so I posted the question. You suggested I use the search button, and I replied with the reason why I posted the question.

I thank you for your help and knowledgeable replies.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Dang! How'd I do on the rest of the answers?

If you are looking for 3 way communitcation, I think you did pretty good.

If you ask 100 different ranchers the questions you posed today, you'd probably get 100 different versions of the answer. Pastures vary from farm to farm here in Texas. Breeds vary and we all have our favorites. We on this board are from all different climates and states. Things are different for each one of us.

I like a little fat on the steers I put in my own freezer. If a steer is going to the sale, I don't feed them anything extra unless I have to. So I think you are on the right track.

My goal is to make the most profit but to make a profit each year. You have to take care of your pastures, fences, facilities and equipment. If you put all your nickels into feed there aren't many nickels left over for everything else in the end. I live quite a distance from the corn belt.

 

[MikeC]

More efficient cattle cattle put on lean vs fat.

Out of curiosity, are efficient cattle the norm or the exception to the rule? I got the impression that Long Horns are efficient cattle. They had to be to survive what their history said they went through.

I would guess you are right about the Longhorns, but couldn't say for sure. Just makes sense.

There is not enough data on efficiency in the beef herd today.

I DO know that it took 12-14 pounds of feed to put a pound of gain on my show calves back in the 50's and 60's. Now it takes only 6 or 7.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Angus, to tell you the truth, I wasn't sure where you were going with your question. I used the search button and ended up with contradicting answers. This thread should be proof that there are differing and contradicting opinions on topics. I couldn't find answers to my questions by searching, so I posted the question. You suggested I use the search button, and I replied with the reason why I posted the question.

I thank you for your help and knowledgeable replies.

You see, there is that race thing!! You call me Angus, but you know dang well I am half Limo!!!

And I hate it when people say," to tell you the truth "

You seem to have gained an inordinate amount of smarts since your original post, keep up the good work and you will have Tyson working for you!!



:lol: :lol:

 

[63DH8]

MikeC, if I came across as a smart@ss, I sincerely apologize. I looked at the question on a multilevel view and replied on each level.

I looked at your question on the level of what's best for the breed for future survival, what the market feels is best, and what I would do and why.

Someone earlier said to match the breed with the environment that I'll be raising them. To me, this meant, if I didn't match my breed, I'll need to grain them because they won't get the nutrient they'll need out of what the land provides. If I had matched my breed to the environment that I'm in, I shouldn't have to grain them because they'll get what they need from the plants in that environment.

The weight gain (fat vs. muscle) was a shot in the dark because I thought extra grain would add fat because that is what the feed lots feed cattle grain in addition to limiting how much the cattle in the lots can walk around.

I appreciate the education. Like I posted earlier; I want only the best for the cattle I want to raise. I don't want to go into this blind.

 

[jw]

You see, there is that race thing!! You call me Angus, but you know dang well I am half Limo!!!

At least he didn't call you X.

 

[S.R.R.]

Sir, I've never held myself out to be anything other than someone that raises sale barn baby calves...

Alice I will try and be nice since you are a lady but............ After reading your above post I am finding it hard to understand why the ---- you have been posting on the topic of creep feeding! :help: :help: :roll:

Because, my brother and I were keeping 60 head of jersey heifers and 6 jersey bulls for someone until he could get them shipped out. We fed them for as long as we could afford it...about 3 months, then we told the guy they had to go. We were not going to let them get down due to the drought, and it had gotten to a point that we knew the guy wouldn't be able to afford to pay us for the feed. We'd gotten to a point that we (I) threw in the labor for free...but we could only go so far.

No, it's not creep feeding as is known by only allowing calves to eat. We fed "creep feed" because it is the stuff that supplements forage during droughts. And, the dairies were buying the stuff by the truck load to do the same thing. Creep feed and creep feeding are literally two different things, I suppose. However, it does have to do with a lack of forage (it is not grain per se), and I just got tired of splitting hairs when it comes to taking care of animals that I, or anyone else, has commited a responsibility toward. When the ox is in the ditch, as it were. If I've not been able to explain my stance, then he11, nail me. I'm really tired of having to justify myself when it comes to making certain animals in my care will be attended to, by God.

Alice

Alice sorry to have carried on so long discussing creep feed or feeding with you. I did not realize that you honestly had know idea what it is. I thought you were just being argumentative. If you would like to know more about it feel free to read the links I posted earlier or ask ?s it is O.K. to not know about everything. Don't feel bad just be sure you have some knowledge of what you are talking about the next time please. :cboy:

 

[63DH8]

Oh GAAAA!!! Friendly fire! I thought I was posting to MikeC while reading backhoeboogie's post! Doh!!!

 

[S.R.R.]

Someone earlier said to match the breed with the environment that I'll be raising them. To me, this meant, if I didn't match my breed, I'll need to grain them because they won't get the nutrient they'll need out of what the land provides. If I had matched my breed to the environment that I'm in, I shouldn't have to grain them because they'll get what they need from the plants in that environment.
.

Yes you just had a :idea: moment that is the point I was trying to get across to you. Also remember the post Scotty put on this thread is very important as well. There are many kinds of cattle in the same breed!

 

[63DH8]

Angus, to tell you the truth, I wasn't sure where you were going with your question. I used the search button and ended up with contradicting answers. This thread should be proof that there are differing and contradicting opinions on topics. I couldn't find answers to my questions by searching, so I posted the question. You suggested I use the search button, and I replied with the reason why I posted the question.

I thank you for your help and knowledgeable replies.

You see, there is that race thing!! You call me Angus, but you know dang well I am half Limo!!!

And I hate it when people say," to tell you the truth "

You seem to have gained an inordinate amount of smarts since your original post, keep up the good work and you will have Tyson working for you!!



:lol: :lol:

I know how you feel in regards to the race thing. I'm half Jap and half Danish. However, I look like the head of the Hezbollah. Frustrating when people don't acknowledge your genetic lineage!

I spent quite a few hours each day searching through this site for information. One of the things the military taught me was to adapt and overcome. To do this, I need much information in a short of period of time. I want the best for the cattle I get, and I'm not settling on the best cropland in the region, so I need the best cattle, the most hardy and adaptable for the environment I'm going to live in. If there's going to be problems, I need to know ahead of time to head off those problems.

Whew! I hate being serious when I don't have to! I thought I wouldn't have to be since the divorce. :lol:

 

[63DH8]

There are many kinds of cattle in the same breed!

Whoa there! You said there are many kinds of cattle in the same breed??? How so? Please define! Explain please!